pan left, pan right, what the heck???

[ibanez468]

Hey Feak!Here's an exercise ta' try out. Plug in somethin' to your Mackie so you can play around, somethin' like a CD player that you can plug-in like you would your guitar. See, you can hit the play button on the CD player while a CD is playin' and then you can manipulate the board and actually hear how all the knobs affect the sounds that are comin' from the CD player. See, it's harder to be playin' the guitar, and tryin' ta' turn knobs on the board at the same time, and listening to the differences in the sound and how it changes. If ya' plug in somethin' and let it play automatically, then your hands are free ta' try things out on the board. See what I'm sayin'? Then you can try out the eq section of the board, and then try out the panning knobs, etc...Likewise, if you can plug that same sound into your computer (or import any .wav file into your DAW) you can do the same thing. Just play the .wav file while you tinker around and turn knobs & press buttons on your DAW. That's how I learned what did what, and how this works, and oooh, what's this do? Once ya' figure it all out, then you can apply ta' real world situations. But it does require you ta' play around for a bit (or however long it takes) in order ta' learn what everything does. And some reading of manuals or anything you can find on the internet, can be of great help. Use your HELP menus for your Sonar program. When I want ta' know how ta' do something in any DAW, I always go to the HELP menu of the program. I usually can always find an answer there. Patience & especially Persistence: the 2 key ingredients! Have FUN!I-468

[ibanez468]

What I always do is ta' test the waters with something I don't mind screwin' up. I mean with all of these new programs that I've purchased over the last few months, doin' some testing first, is always in order. I test, tinker, terminate. Once I've got enough information on how the application works, then I get down to the real business at hand.But I always do my testing with files that I don't mind destroying or deleting, or I make a copy or a "dummy" file ta' work with so that no harm comes to the original. Just some things ta' think about. You don't always hafta' work with an original file. You can always work with a copy and spare your original works any trauma. Learn on the computer how ta' make copies of your original files so you can feel free to "muck" up the copy if need be. There's nothin' worse than deleting a file by accident after all of the work that you put into it, and it was the only one. Total heartbreaker.I-468

[ernstinen]

Jul 18, 2008, 10:28am, aubreyz wrote:Guitar With only one recorded mono take:• To get a wider sound, duplicate the track and pan each hard L,R. Add 10 to 20 ms of delay to one track and it will widen the pan. For even more variety, add a tube, amp, or other coloration plug to one side. Great stuff, Aub!Yea, the delay trick is a good one. I've used that a lot. Plus, I agree that double-tracking guitars is a good idea, or using two amps for electric guitar and panning them in stereo.One studio gig I had was to remix a rock band. The guitar part was played well, but sounded TERRIBLE! So I took an output of that track and ran it into my Soldano guitar amp. After some tweaking and effects, I re-recorded it and voila! Sounded like Eric Clapton (almost ).Also, using a bit of stereo chorus on mono guitar tracks can do wonders if you don't overdo it. Using that and some short panned delay, and double-tracking the guitars can make an acoustic guitar almost sound like a bunch of guitarists are playing together in the room, like Jeff Lynne's productions or Tom Petty's "Learning To Fly" (which probably IS about 10 guitarists playing together in the same room! ).Ern

[ernstinen]

Jul 19, 2008, 10:33am, mazz wrote:The best tool for understanding the aesthetics of panning is a good set of headphones and a collection of your favorite music.Another great post, Mazz! Headphones are THE tool for learning panning.Listen to "Cry Of Love" by Hendrix. Talk about wild panning!Also, "Her Majesty" at the end of The Beatles' Abbey Road is REAL interesting on headphones. Of course, most of the later Beatle stuff is headphone material!One of my favorite hard rock CDs is "Moving Pictures" by Rush. The drumming and panning is outstanding on that album.Ern

[aubreyz]

Jul 19, 2008, 1:00pm, mazz wrote:Growing up, the headphones were a family survival mechanism for me. Many, many hours as a young teenager were spent lying on the floor in the dark with headphones on. I've always been fascinated with sound and the world created by stereo records was a revelation to me. I didn't understand necessarily what was going on or how to achieve it at the time (I'd never been in a studio), but I cataloged in my mind all of those things I heard and started to figure out how to do them when I was recording my own stuff on 4 tracks, cassettes, whatever I could get my hands on. I did exactly what I suggested, which was to train myself to zoom in and out of mixes to focus on different aspects and parts. It turns out it was time well spent.I love to share this stuff with everyone, it's all bottled up inside me, a lifetime of intense study. I'm glad we have this forum, I learn so much!!Cheers!MazzOh those days!! I grew up not being exposed to much else but gospel. At about 13, I found this rock station on the radio late at night listening in my big ol' Koss cans. The first song I heard was Phil Collins "In The Air Tonight" -- What a landscape of dynamics and sound. I'd never heard anything like that. Luckily I found a station that also played the Beatles, Zep, and Pink Floyd. It took a long time before I knew why what I was listening to was so cool but, as Mazz pointed out, I started listening to individual elements. Why does the vocal sound like that? What kind of instrument makes that noise? Why do I hear different things in different ears? I didn't have a clue that one day I would be recording, but those early years of learning to listen paved the way.Glad you brought that up Mazz. You have to show up at listening university with a good set of headphones!!--- but leave 'em off to mix Aub

[ernstinen]

Jul 19, 2008, 1:00pm, mazz wrote:Many, many hours as a young teenager were spent lying on the floor in the dark with headphones on. Yup, me too! Actually lying in bed in the dark. Did they have beds when you were growing up, Mazz? My first REALLY good radio was a Heathkit Electronic Workshop. You could make all kinds of cool stuff with it, but when I built my first AM radio, I was hooked. I ran a copper antenna wire all around the backyard trees, and even living in Michigan, I could easily get WBZ in Boston, WRVA in Richmond VA, and when the weather was right, some stations in Memphis. What a musical education! WBZ was really cutting-edge in playing the newest tunes, even before WLS in Chicago.Then my dad built a Heathkit FM tuner, and my life changed forever. Those were the days when FM was known as "underground" radio, i.e. radical. I'll never forget the first time I heard the "John Barleycorn" album by Traffic. I'm thinking "Wow, you can Rock and be Jazzy at the same time!"Later, when Steely Dan released "Aja" and "Gaucho," my sense of REALLY great engineering was enhanced. I still use those CDs as reference CDs when I mix.Another fantastic sounding recording is "Wildflowers" by Tom Petty, produced by Rick Ruben. MAN, that guy's got some ears! It doesn't say on the CD if it's a digital recording or an analog recording, but my guess is it's analog. What a huge, warm sound. Kinda like Petty's "White Album" in its versatility and arrangements.Ern

[mazz]

My uncle was stationed in Korea in the early 70s at the tail end of the Vietnam war. He brought home a stereo that he bought over there at the PX and he had a really nice turntable and a Sony reel to reel (which I later borrowed frequently to record on). He had a set of headphones and it was the first time I'd ever put a pair on. He had the Santana album that didn't have a title (Santana 3, with the light show on the cover). I'll never forget when those congas come in and then the cowbells in the other ear and it just builds from there in stereo. I just about jumped out of my skin. I'll never forget that moment. The whole family was in the living room talking and I was about 1000 miles away in my own little world. That was it for me, I never looked back. After that I convinced my dad to buy a new stereo and, of course, a pair of headphones which became "mine" from then on!!And yes, Aja with that incredible reverb on the vocals on Black Cow. I'm willing to bet that's the Capitol Records echo chamber. What an incredible sound. Still holds up to this day as incredible production. Roger Nichols is God. I bow down to him! Mazz

[ibanez468]

Jul 19, 2008, 1:43pm, ernstinen wrote:Later, when Steely Dan released "Aja" and "Gaucho," my sense of REALLY great engineering was enhanced. I still use those CDs as reference CDs when I mix. Ern Yeah Ernst, really good stuff ta' reference. I have their "Greatest Hits" CD, and throw that thing on from time ta' time when I wanna hear some solid engineering techniques. I-468

[ernstinen]

Hey Mazz & Ibanez,I just checked out "Black Cow" and "Aja" on headphones and WOW, even after 20 years or so these sound so freakin' great! Geez, "Aja" is just a masterpiece. Steve Gadd on drums is awesome, and the drum panning --- really, ALL the panning is just right on the money. Ditto with all the other instruments and vocals --- recorded JUST right!Makes me think of a story about when they were recording this stuff. Walter Becker was sitting on a couch in the back of the control room (on smack), and was nodding out. The engineers were arguing about how to EQ a track.From back in the darkness booms Becker's voice: "+3 db at 4.45 kHz!" These guys were SERIOUS about every detail! --- Even on heroin. Ern