Plagarism

[pitterpatter]

There are only so many ways a pre chorus or channel can lead up into a chorus. The last few notes can be just like someone else's song. How forgiving are people, generally speaking? What if you have a hook that is a similar but not exactly like another song's hook in regards to melody? What if the recorded song is from the 60's? Does the era make a difference? No one wants to have a song that could result in a lawsuit (if the song does well) especially with the cost of demos and promotion. How far can the envelope be pushed on this one?I remember hearing Willie Nelson say he may have borrowed a few lines from other songwriters but that some of them had also borrowed a few song lines from him. Also, is there a service that can be used that would research your song's attributes in relation to other recorded songs to see if there is any danger of plagarism? Or, do libraries, publishers or labels look into this for a songwriter?Any thoughts on this?

[horacejesse]

This always worries a songwriter. You don't want to get away with anything if you are a creator, you want to be original at all times.There is no standard answer to what you can get away with in case you unconsciously copy part or all of someone else's work. The seven consecutive note thing is hogwash and has no legal substance.The particular judge and jury and the lawyers for both sides are what win or lose these cases. I posted a link to a site that examines pretty much all of the song plagarism cases that got to court in the US. In the case of Selles vs the Bee Gees the jury awarded for Selles but the judge himself reversed their decision. I thought the judge was in error.The lynchpin of any case is access. If it can be shown to the jury's satisfaction that the defendant had acces to the song he is supposed to have ripped off, he loses. Simple as that.A lot of songs that ome would think would engender lawsuits do not. Green Day's Holiday might be a fairly good candidate for a lawsuit.

[feloniuspunk]

I think there are some cases that are more blatant than others. After all there is only one way to do a 3/6 2/5 turnaround in the key of C. You play Em7/A9, Dm7/G9 and back to C.But that's where you can get creative and use cool substitutions and even come up with some nifty new bass lines as well. For the example above some typical subs might be: Em7-Eb9-Dm7-Db9-CThe bass line is now a cool chromatically descending line and you've accomplished the same thing tonally speaking as far as the chord tones.It can get a lot wierder too. Technically the Eb9 above is also an Eb9#11. The #11 keeps an A note in the chord from the original 3/6 inversion. The Db9 can also be a Db#9 - neopolitan 5th. Same as playing a G7 or a G9. Of course a Db7b5 keeps a G note in the chord from the original 2/5 inversion too.Turnarounds are a deep well and if you're creative can quench a great thirst. Although they are admittedly not the meat and potatoes of a song, they are the parsely. And you can get pretty creative with parsley. Ask any good chef.So, learn your theory. Just ask Clarence Diggs.

[matto]

Quote:I think there are some cases that are more blatant than others. After all there is only one way to do a 3/6 2/5 turnaround in the key of C. You play Em7/A9, Dm7/G9 and back to C.But that's where you can get creative and use cool substitutions and even come up with some nifty new bass lines as well. For the example above some typical subs might be: Em7-Eb9-Dm7-Db9-CThe bass line is now a cool chromatically descending line and you've accomplished the same thing tonally speaking as far as the chord tones.It can get a lot wierder too. Technically the Eb9 above is also an Eb9#11. The #11 keeps an A note in the chord from the original 3/6 inversion. The Db9 can also be a Db#9 - neopolitan 5th. Same as playing a G7 or a G9. Of course a Db7b5 keeps a G note in the chord from the original 2/5 inversion too.Turnarounds are a deep well and if you're creative can quench a great thirst. Although they are admittedly not the meat and potatoes of a song, they are the parsely. And you can get pretty creative with parsley. Ask any good chef.So, learn your theory. Just ask Clarence Diggs.This is good advice Nick except that it doesn't really have anything to do with plagiarism, since chord progressions cannot be copyrighted anyway. But I love stuff like this...As far as the original question, if you're worried something you wrote might be too close to an existing song, the best thing to do is to ask some other knowledgable musicians. Ask them: "Does this remind you of something? (Don't tell them which song you think it's too close to). If they say, "yeah, it sounds like Let It Be", then you're too close. If they say "no", ask them..."how about Let it Be"?. If they say "you know...now that you mention it, it does sound a lot like it", you're probably too close. If they think it doesn't really sound like it...you're probably fine.There really isn't any scientific standard to this unfortunately. And honestly I worry more that I might be ripping off an existing song unconciously...at least if I recognize there could be a problem I can fix it or just can the song altogether. But...you really can't worry about it TOO MUCH or you'll never write anything. To some degree it's an occupational hazard...matto

[arkjack]

With over 5,000,000 songs on line, there are alot of melodies that get into chord progrressions that are inevitably going to sound like something. I IV V stuff is as prevalent as cliched lines... I never heard of anyone having a monoply on a 12 bar blues... and we hear it and its variations all the time in all genres.... I can't give you an answer, but if you're nervous about a line, rewrite and find something else that works. How 'bout.... Uncle Kracker Follow Me... and Kenny Chesney ... When the Sun Goes Down..... you can practically sing them over top one another.... Makes ya wonder why Kracker is in Chesney's video but not the other way around.....ArkJack

[feloniuspunk]

I guess I just don't worry about plagiarism all that much. My songs are so outside and unique (I write instrumental jazz) that it would be a real twist if I accidentally wrote a few bars in one of my songs that sounded like another song from another place and time by another artist. I guess it could happen. All things being equal, I'm not trying to sound like anyone else and as far as contemporary artists that everyone else listens to these days, well, let's just say that they're not my first choice or personal preference for listening. I don't listen to Beyonce or Britney or Green Day. I have listened to them and it's just not my brand of vodka. My influences come from totally different artists who are all dead (Miles, Coltrane, Monk, Parker, Bill Evans, etc.)The basics of music; melody, harmony, rhythm, style, instrumentation, arrangements, etc. can all be used to create very unique stuff. If you play rock with a guitar that uses distortion you just increased your odds of sounding like someone else. If you play an archtop with no distortion, then there's really only a handful of players out there who you could sound like.I can see your point though. For more mainstream writers writing more commercail stuff it's something you need to be aware of. In court I think it all boils down to who has the most expensive lawyers, not about who's right. If the stakes are high enough, McCartney versus Michael Jackson for instance, then it becomes a media circus almost as bad as reality TV.

[pitterpatter]

I wish that the lines drawn in the sand were clearer for this but I guess they're not. I'll try my best to be as original as I can and hopefully, I'll stay out of trouble. Thanks to everyone for your comments.