Best preamp for micing accoustic guitar?

[billos]

G'day All,I am a new member of this very informative site and am about to make the plunge into the DAW world - so am calling out to all my fellow worldly muso brothers and sisters for some adviceI am a keyboard \ guitar player and am wanting to record stereo piano \ accoustic guitar tracks into the DAWMy main concern is the accousticFound a good mic - open to all suggestions here also Need recomendations for a great 2-channel preamp or channel strip to mic the accoustic guitar amp (or should this be set as an AUX insert in the DAW) - which I could also use for stereo digital piano and final project masteringI really appreciate your positive responses and advice, thanksBillos

[wta]

Welcome to the board mate, you've got some great questions and I'd love to feedback. Big help would be to know what budget your working with. Also, in regards to your acoustic set up, what type of acoustic sound and what genre are you tracking for? wta

[billos]

Hi Looking to put down my own ideas, mainly country \ folk acoustic sounds with stereo miked acoustic guitar \ piano..so hi freq clarity is a must (I think)My budget on an excellent preamp is to 4k (USD) matched pair mic's to 2k (USD)I like the sound of Grace m201 and Summit TPA 200b pre's, just not sure how the summit's are with stereo miking for acoustic or how the grace is for stereo miking piano... or be done with it all and get a avalon 737 (everyone seems to have one) I am leaning toward the grace thoughI've heard that smal diaphram condensors are the go, so looking at a matched pair of AKG C 414 B-XLS or Neumann KM184..what ya think? Can I acheive as good if not better results from less expensive mics or pres here?TIABillos

[wta]

My advice would be to hire a studio that has several of the options you're like to buy and A/B the pres and mics with your guitars. Record your test time and make an educated hands on decision. I always keep in mind that one day I will sell my gear and so I get tried and true gear with names that keep their value. Good luck! wta

[mojobone]

Might be worth a few hours studio time to do as suggested above, but for clarity rather than character, either the Grace or the Summit pre will do just fine, and for my personal preference, the KM-184 is great for anything with strings, but you can hardly go wrong with any small diaphragm mic in that price range. After all, there aren't many $2,000 guitars that suck; same goes for microphones.

[stick]

Check out the Millennia pres too. In a similar class as the Grace... maybe even a little cleaner, more pristine. If you do want color... the options are endless... I'm dying to try out the Shadow Hills stuff. One thing to keep in mind... be sure your A to D conversion can keep up with the quality of your mic/pre combination. Running $6K worth of mic/pre through your Mbox's converters isn't going to cut it. If you don't have this covered, I think the API A2D is an interesting box... a couple 312 pres, and supposedly some very good A to D converters all in one box. And you can bypass the pres or the converters if you're wanting some other pre's sound or whatever. It's high on my list of toys to buy... And, in my opinion, the mic has a much bigger effect on the overall sound than the pre... especially when you're talking about "clean" pres. You'll just have to find the mics that compliment the sound of your guitar. For piano, it depends on the sort of sound you're after, but I've gotten good results with large and small diaphram condensers. 414s are pretty "standard" for piano close micing.

[billos]

Thanks to allExcellent advice, why pay tonnes for something you have only heard \ read about? Will try before I buy, and gain more opinions from like minded peoples around the town aswellNow onto the real interesting stuff...I hear you stick about the AD conversion (you're not the first person to mention this to me) And as I'm new, please excuse my ignorance, but, wasn't it settled everywhere that everyone would and should record at 44.1Khz? Do top quality convertors like the Rosetta 800 (insert you fav ad convertor here) really make THAT much of a difference?Was going to go Pro tools 003R factory LE with a black lion mod http://www.blacklionaudio.com/ but am open to suggestions...I really am just starting, intend to go to HD eventually, just want to learn the ropes on LE, get a really good few items to start with; preamp, mic so when I upgrade to HD I can run great clocks and convertors then...but again, am open to suggestions and adviceCheersbillos

[mazz]

Hi billos,The sampling frequency (you mention 44.1) has a bit to do with A/D conversion but actually the design of the converter is much more important than the sampling rate, IMO (and the bit depth but that's another story). Great converters have great filter designs (after all, they have to be able to deal with an analog signal at first) and also have a very stable clocking system. If the clock is not great, the high frequencies can be messed up and the clarity of the recorded signal won't be all it can be. This is an oversimplification, for sure, but, IMO, the most important item in a digital studio is the A/D conversion because that's where the rubber meets the road. Having great mics and pres and a not so great converter is like having a professional digital camera with a dirty lens. Hope this helps.Mazz

[stick]

I think the 003 with the Black Lion mod will certainly get you going until you're ready to move to HD. One thing I don't know about on a 003 (I've got HD), is how you bypass the built-in pres if you're going to use better outboard pres. And I actually, sort of disagree with Mazz for once... I really think the mic is the biggest factor in the sound you're putting in your computer. Then the pre is next. Third is the converter. To me, a great mic and great pre through a crappy converter is going to sound much better than a crappy mic and crappy pre through a top shelf converter. The "sound" of a converter just doesn't affect the sound as much as the other pieces of the chain... IMO. That said, I wouldn't call the 003 with the BL mod "crappy" by a long shot.

[daniel481]

Just to throw this in, I've been using the straight, un-modded 003 for a while now, and it really sounds pretty damn good. The built in pres and onboard conversion have really come a long way from some of Digi's older gear. I've used that setup, with those pres, for everything from a major video game soundtrack to current tracks I'm working on for a major film trailer music company. I eventually plan on getting some more esoteric pres and converters to make everything even better (the Black Lion mod has been on my mind for a while), but I've never had anyone say anything negative about sound quality (except for the times when I just put out kind of a crappy mix or something ).Also, I've done a lot of work in studios with HD rigs, and the difference is really not hugely different if you know what you're doing in the first place. It can definitely never hurt to have the best stuff, but if you're really just starting out with PT and are trying to learn the ropes, you'll be able to get plenty of good sound out of the 003 by itself.Just my two cents!