Help/Advice pls

[ibanez468]

Hey Dev!Good article man! That does make every bit 'o' sense ta' me as well. I'm as guilty as the next person of doin' what that article says. But I at least try to make a very conscious effort to keep my starting levels at -6db, which still sounds a bit too much. My Alesis HD24 manual does suggest keeping recording levels at around -15db, but I never took that into consideration with the understanding of how things would be affected when it came time to master. That article is a very CLEAR explanation of what happens (or doesn't happen) when things aren't set properly. I'll definitely re-adjust my thinking the next time I get ready to track. I copied & pasted the article in Word for future reference. Thanks for sharing!I-468

[bigbluebarry]

OK, I had a chance to listen to the song last night through my studio speakers. First off, digging the guitar tone, reminds me of the guitar players from one of my old bands. I hear a little Rob Zombie and Megadeth, but I digress. I agree with everything that Ern said. It was hard to distinguish the vocals in a few spots, try compressing them a bit and maybe bring the guitar down a bit too. I can barely hear the bass at all. That was one of my biggest problems when I first started recording/mixing my own stuff. I'm not that much of a bass player (a bit better now than I used to be) so I would usually end up burying it in the mix. So try doing some EQ and compression on the bass guitar so we can hear that bad boy! I also agree with Devin that the mix, while sounding like it was cleanly recorded, doesn't really "gel" to me. I would suggest using a modest amount of reverb. No need to go over the top with it. The trick is to use it without drawing attention to it. I'm a big sports guy. In basketball and football, there is a saying that the way you can tell that the referees did a good job is that you didn't really notice they were there during the game. Relating that to music, you want the listener to say "Wow, what a great song you have!" and not "Wow, what a great compressor you have!" Hope that helps!- Big Blueps - Devin, thanks for that link, great article!

[tkdman]

Hey thanks bigQuestion...In regards to the "modest amount of reverb": do you mean on the master bus or on individual instruments/tracks?Thanks again guys!Chris

[bigbluebarry]

hey Chris,I'm sure there are different opinions on the reverb issue, but as far as what I do personally, I tend to put reverb on the individual instruments/tracks so that I can control exactly how much each one gets. I use a send to an aux bus that has a reverb plug-in. I have the fader for that track set at unity and then on the individual sends for each instrument track, I adjust the fader level on the send to suit to taste.I haven't tried using a reverb on the master bus. I'm sure there is a benefit to it, maybe Ern or someone with someone with more experience can chime in on the benefits of using reverbs on ind. tracks versus using it on the master bus, or heck, maybe you should use it on both. - Big Blue

[mojobone]

Erm, I disagree. Reverb will tend to make any instrument sound less 'in-yer-face', which I think is not what you're trying to achieve here. I get the "doesn't gel" comments and I agree; you're pretty close to a great mix, but there are a few trouble spots. Some resonance in the bass, bass and kick fighting each other for sonic real estate, a little too much low end on the guitars, the result of trying to make everything "big" at the same time. I believe some subtractive EQ is what's called for, here. Most of the best mixers I know never use the solo button when EQing instruments in a mix and seldom add EQ; they listen to the instrument sounds in context and use the EQ to remove whatever doesn't need to be there. The result is a mix where everything fits together like a jigsaw puzzle with zero "mud" in the way of what needs to be heard from each instrument.For example, if you pull out a little of that wooly 400 hz from the bass, you'll hear more note definition without really changing the level. (though you might need to compensate slightly to adjust for the subtracted frequencies-with every EQ adjustment you make, levels will need to be balanced again; a painstaking and time-consuming process, and one that shouldn't be rushed.Roger Nichols gave a great mixing clinic for Sound On Sound that covered this really well. I'll see if I can't hunt that down and post a link.

[ernstinen]

Oct 28, 2008, 10:40am, bigbluebarry wrote:I haven't tried using a reverb on the master bus. I'm sure there is a benefit to it, maybe Ern or someone with someone with more experience can chime in on the benefits of using reverbs on ind. tracks versus using it on the master bus, or heck, maybe you should use it on both. Well, I normally use two different reverbs, but not on every track, and definitely not when RECORDING a track, because you can't take it off later if you used too much. --- The one exception is if you're doing an electric guitar part through a tube amp with a nice spring reverb.A little reverb is normally used, in pop music, on vocals and snare drum, and maybe on some keyboard parts. If you use reverb on EVERYTHING, it turns into a swampy mess! --- I've used a buss reverb when mastering maybe 1 time ever, and that was on a spacey song that I felt was too dry.Here's an interesting "reverb" story: A local L.A. pedal steel player was hired by Tom Petty to play a part on a song, and after he set up, he asked "How much reverb do you want me to use?"There was dead silence. The band just stared at him.The poor guy said "What!?"Petty said to him "WE don't use ANY reverb." Most people don't have the luxury of recording in a big studio room with natural ambience like Petty, so ya hafta judge for yourself what to use it on and how much to use.Ern

[ernstinen]

P.S. --- I was just thinking about some creative uses of reverb! On one of my fave recordings, "Rocket Man" by Elton John, they use reverb on the ride cymbal! I think Pink Floyd often did that, too.And Prince uses reverb on kick drum, probably a gated one like you'd use on a snare. A different sound, fer sure.One thing that I always do is EQ reverbs. You'd be surprised how that can clean up a track!For me, it's just fun to experiment and see what you'll find ---Ern

[og]

Oct 28, 2008, 1:37pm, ernstinen wrote:One thing that I always do is EQ reverbs. You'd be surprised how that can clean up a track!Ern Care to elaborate?

[ernstinen]

Oct 28, 2008, 5:34pm, og wrote:Oct 28, 2008, 1:37pm, ernstinen wrote:One thing that I always do is EQ reverbs. You'd be surprised how that can clean up a track!Ern Care to elaborate?NO.****Jus' kiddin', Og! I still use an analog board, a classic Soundcraft to mix all my digital tracks through, and use outboard gear. So this might not apply to everyone else who goes completely digital, I don't know.But on my reverb sends, I'll roll off the highs and lows a bit. And on the reverb returns into the board, I'll EQ both channels of the stereo reverb according to what tracks they are sent to and how if affects the overall sound.For instance, I'll solo the reverb and listen to where the "mud" is, normally about 400 to 800 hz. Then I'll roll off those frequencies until things clear up. It takes time and patience, but it really helps in the end.Maybe you digital guys can expand upon this! Have fun experimenting!Ern

[mojobone]

Here's the link:Roger Nichols on mixingBTW, there are two main benefits to bus reverb: a single instance of the 'verb of your choice is less likely to choke your processor than a bunch of 'verbs on a bunch of channels, and by sending a number of relatively dry tracks to the same reverb, you can make them sound like they're in the same room, given the appropriate ambience or room program/ convolution impulse. (if you should want some of those sounds to appear to be further back in this virtual room, simply turn up the sends for those tracks) It's been said that the sound of live music is the sound of bleed (spill for you brits); bus reverb is one way to get it into your tracks.