let's talk VIs & Velocities

[hummingbird]

Howdy. I've noted that many of us here are moving towards getting better sound libraries / virtual instruments for production purposes & so I thought it would be useful to start a series of discussions about using virtual instruments. This week's topic: "Virtual Instruments & Velocities".After getting Silver last year I started to realize that having authentic sounds is only one-third of the battle. The next thing is to orchestrate the instruments effectively... and then, work with each track to make it sound as organic as possible.Which brings me to velocity - each midi note or sequenced note has a velocity, and I have learned that they can't all be the same, or it won't sound real. I have laboured to go through a track note by note to vary velocities... and then realized there was a controller I could use to do the same thing for the whole track (duh) ... but I still don't know what settings to use for the phrases in each instrumental track.I was thinking today, that when I sing, I obviously use phrasing & change "velocities" to express the piece. So I wondered, should I sing the phrase the instrument will be playing, and then set the instrument velocity to reflect how I would sing it - would that get me closer to how an instrumentalist would play?Hummin'bird

[mazz]

Vikki,The settings really are determined by the phrase and the part. If it's a viola part that's playing a background, then it can't be as bright as if it were playing the melody so you'd probably make the velocity lower overall.I'll sometimes make crescendos over a period of time by using velocity and then maybe doing a swell at the then of the phrase with a DXF patch or CC11 depending on the type of swell.When I do fast string runs, for instance on an ending (I do that a lot!), I'll do a velocity curve on each part, say from 85 to 115 and some parts will get louder at slightly different times but they'll all end up at around 115 on the last note. This does 2 things to my ears: 1. It simulates how an instrument gets naturally louder as it goes higher in pitch and, 2. The slight variations make it sound more like a section of live players who will never crescendo at exactly the same rate as the player sitting next to them or in the next section over. Sometimes I'll even do a "humanize" on the velocities a track at a time just to make each track a bit different.I think you're on to something with your idea to sing the lines. For one thing, it'll make your instrumental pieces breathe more, which will make them feel more natural, and for the other thing, it'll help you make your instrument lines "sing". Try mapping CC11 to your tracks and put one hand on a controller (or use a DXF patch with the mod wheel) and sing the part and when you want to add a bit of expression like a slight swell, push the wheel or controller forward a bit and the bring it back just like you would do with your breath when your singing. Playing the velocities will shape the attack of the notes but playing the controllers will shape the note while you're holding it which makes a big difference in the expressiveness of the note. A static, looped string note, no matter how good the sample will sound phoney to the ear. But if you add some movement in there, you'll go a long way toward fooling mother nature.So, it's a combination of velocity and controllers that will raise your orchestrations to the next level, IMO.Great thread!!Mazz

[hummingbird]

Quote:Try mapping CC11 to your tracks and put one hand on a controller (or use a DXF patch with the mod wheel) and sing the part and when you want to add a bit of expression like a slight swell, push the wheel or controller forward a bit and then bring it back just like you would do with your breath when your singing.It would be great to have some screen shots or a short video of what this looks like...Do you mean to play the track with your mouse on the controller & raise or lower the expression (to reflect the vocal phrasing)?

[hummingbird]

Just thought I'd add --- I did a search for "virtual instruments" on youtube & came up with this list -- might be helpful:http://www.youtube.com/results?search_q ... rch=Search

[jh]

One trick is to crossfade a note from one velocity to another. When you use the expression controller, it won´t change the velocity layer. Sometimes it´s cool that the texture changes too when the note/instrument gets louder (or vice versa). Here´s how:1. Load an instrument into two separate channels (use the same patch)2. Play a note 3. Copy the note to the "channel 2", but change the velocity value4. Fade the first channel in (or out) and the second one out (or in)I´ve got good results with this. Sometimes I use the pitchbend controller to put some notes slightly out of tune (but just very slightly), and simulate vibrato, slide, etc. when needed. Of course you can use more than two different velocity layers within the same note if you like.Happy editing! - JH

[ibanez468]

Quote:It would be great to have some screen shots or a short video of what this looks like...Hi Vikki,Ya' know, trying to find screen shots and examples of these procedures is difficult. I had tried to find all kinds of things related to these control change numbers at one time. Mostly everything I find is written, long paragraphs of numbers and things, but never any pictures of how these numbers are used, or really any in-depth explanation. So what I did, was get on the net and download classical or orchestral midifiles, basically the ones that were really using some expression. And then load 'em up into my DAW (I use Sonar 5.0), and click a track (perhaps violins, or cellos, etc...) and open up the 'piano roll view' in conjunction with the 'event list view', and then I can see what types of expressions were used, how they look on the screen, and even at what measure they begin. Not sure which DAW you're using, but that might be a way to get a look at some of the various expressions, and how & when they're used. You gotta' get some really good midi sequences though. I've found a few good sites with fairly good midi sequences. At least enough for me to see what's going on inside the sequence. If you're interested, let me know. Hope this helps. ibanez468

[jh]

Quote:It would be great to have some screen shots or a short video of what this looks like...http://www.mackie.com/products/tracktio ... 03"Editing controller events"HTH - JH

[jh]

Quote:Ya' know, trying to find screen shots and examples of these procedures is difficulthttp://www.soundonsound.com/sos/dec05/articles ... tes.htmHTH - JH

[mazz]

Quote:Quote:Try mapping CC11 to your tracks and put one hand on a controller (or use a DXF patch with the mod wheel) and sing the part and when you want to add a bit of expression like a slight swell, push the wheel or controller forward a bit and then bring it back just like you would do with your breath when your singing.It would be great to have some screen shots or a short video of what this looks like...Do you mean to play the track with your mouse on the controller & raise or lower the expression (to reflect the vocal phrasing)?I meant to actually use the controllers on your keyboard for this. If you have a volume pedal you could use that too, just re-map the controller from CC7 to CC11. Your software should have a way to do this.Does your keyboard have a mod wheel? If so, the DXF patches in Gold respond to the modwheel (CC1). You can do nice crescendos with these patches, great for French Horns. Sometimes I play the part, get the velocities the way I want them and then overdub the controllers on a second track while the part is playing back.When I get home tonight I'll try to put up a screen shot of what the controller data looks like in my DAW which is Digital Performer.HTH,Mazz

[rfrey]

Quote:Quote:It would be great to have some screen shots or a short video of what this looks like...Hi Vikki,Ya' know, trying to find screen shots and examples of these procedures is difficult. I had tried to find all kinds of things related to these control change numbers at one time. Mostly everything I find is written, long paragraphs of numbers and things, but never any pictures of how these numbers are used, or really any in-depth explanation. So what I did, was get on the net and download classical or orchestral midifiles, basically the ones that were really using some expression. And then load 'em up into my DAW (I use Sonar 5.0), and click a track (perhaps violins, or cellos, etc...) and open up the 'piano roll view' in conjunction with the 'event list view', and then I can see what types of expressions were used, how they look on the screen, and even at what measure they begin. Not sure which DAW you're using, but that might be a way to get a look at some of the various expressions, and how & when they're used. You gotta' get some really good midi sequences though. I've found a few good sites with fairly good midi sequences. At least enough for me to see what's going on inside the sequence. If you're interested, let me know. Hope this helps. ibanez468ibanez,Great idea. Learning by example helps me a lot as well. I love this thread! It's already helped out this morning. Thanks for starting it Hummingbird!