What Do I Say?

[ernstinen]

Hey Everyone,I've got a dilemma, and thought I'd turn to some of you recording engineer types for a few ideas.One of my best friends, whom I've known since 7th grade and played in my first rock band with, has recorded a CD. He's a fine songwriter, but not really a professional musician or producer.Well --- I just listened to it in my studio and it sounds, er, --- terrible. He's been touting the studio he recorded it in for over a year, and it's obvious the engineer doesn't know what he's doing --- or, my friend (who is very headstrong) "produced" it to sound this way. It's in desperate need of serious EQ and needs to be remastered. (I believe the project is "finished," I'm not sure). It sounds extremely muddy, and the vocals must have been done on an old funky tube mic. Warm, yes. But there's no highs over about 7k on the whole mix. And extremely compressed, which can't be fixed.Man --- What do I say?Thanks in advance,Ern

[milfus]

I normally ask people to both barrel me with honesty, so I try to be flat honest, however if ego is involved or hes not as accepting of criticism, that could be some treachery. One kind of sneaky thing you might do, is make like a mix tape cd for your car, and stick his song inbetween 2 professional songs, so while you are riding he will compare it to both of the songs....

[sgs4u]

Has he asked you to tell him exactly what you think of it?Is your relationship with him so important that you are willing to not tell him everything you think about his recordings? If you're not in the habit of spending much time together, then whatever the fallout is, might not be that big a deal. Just do your best to separate your reviews of the music, from the personal stuff he might take greater exception to. Keep reminding him, you are in the business of creating music, that people are looking for. His recordings are likely made for a different reason than yours are. Maybe there is a fit for his music, and you could direct him somewhere. If your buddy is as headstrong as you think he might be, get him to post up one of the tunes here. You are a consummate pro Ern. You haven't learned what you've acquired by accident. Quote:Hey Everyone,I've got a dilemma, and thought I'd turn to some of you recording engineer types for a few ideas.One of my best friends, whom I've known since 7th grade and played in my first rock band with, has recorded a CD. He's a fine songwriter, but not really a professional musician or producer.Well --- I just listened to it in my studio and it sounds, er, --- terrible. He's been touting the studio he recorded it in for over a year, and it's obvious the engineer doesn't know what he's doing --- or, my friend (who is very headstrong) "produced" it to sound this way. It's in desperate need of serious EQ and needs to be remastered. (I believe the project is "finished," I'm not sure). It sounds extremely muddy, and the vocals must have been done on an old funky tube mic. Warm, yes. But there's no highs over about 7k on the whole mix. And extremely compressed, which can't be fixed.Man --- What do I say?Thanks in advance,Ern

[avillaronga]

I've had the same problem, having to tell friends some cold, awful truths. And in return, I've been told by some friends when my stuff has not been quite there (and I'm not sure it's quite there yet!). The approach really depends on the personality of the person receiving the feedback, since you are asking for help, I'll assume that's a bit of a problem. First, I would start off by highlighting the positives (are the songs themselves good at least?). Next, don't make the feedback personal, don't say "you sound...", or "your playing is...", or "your mix is..." but "it sounds...", "it feels...", etc. Another suggestion is to give the feedback in reference to a record or artist this person likes and/or respects. Say something like "I would have expected it to sound more like so and so in this particular area..." etc. Finally, for every criticism offer a way to correct or make it better. Don't just say "it sounds over-compressed" say "it would sound a lot better to me if there wasn't so much compression, maybe with x, y, and/or z done to the mix or track, it would sound a lot better". Just a few thoughts. HTHAntonio

[sgs4u]

Bingo, Antonio's suggestions are likely the best approach. We all know how much work goes into making an entire CD. Anyone that completes all those steps, is to be congratulated. Ask him questions about what it feels like to have it all done.Quote: First, I would start off by highlighting the positives Antonio

[slideboardouts]

This really depends on a lot of things.1. How close of a friend is he?2. How serious is he about his music career?3. Does he take criticism well?4. Some other things I can't think of right now If he is a close friend and takes his music seriously, I would say something even if you knew he would get his panties in a wad. Here is an example:A friend of mine has been best friends with Ronnie Winter of Red Jumpsuit for years. One day, Ronnie said to him "Man, I'm the best singer in Jacksonville..." etc. My friend replied "No, you sound whiny when you sing...like you're singing out of your nose." Well, Ronnie didn't take that comment all that well. A few years later, though, he thanked him for that comment. He said that it motivated him to improve his singing. And they are still friends to this day, by the way.So it really depends on your situation. He might not take it well, but in the end it will probably be for the best if he is at all serious about his music. And you two will still be friends.-Steve

[milfus]

Well I used to be like that, take it to heart, and I remember a friend of mine heard one of my songs (it was HORRIBLE) and he was honest, just kinda let me down easy, and I got so mad, I worked on that song for like 3 weeks and shoved it in his face, and he was like, yeah see, thats more on par with your other stuff, and I had to just forgive em right then

[ernstinen]

Thanks for the quick responses! I just talked to my wife, and she reminded me about how one of my other best friends recently told me he did NOT want one of my symphonic CD's ("Not my cup of tea"). That really hurt, and I don't want to hurt this friend. Is it my place as a recording engineer to tell him about the sound, or should I find some things I like about the songs, parts, playing etc. and leave it at that? One other thing that my wife said is that the engineer is a relative of my friend's wife. Ohmygod! Am I in trouble! I just wish he would have asked me to lend some fresh ears to his project (I would have done it for free). But he didn't, soooooo --- Hmmmm.I guess I'll start with the positives, and if he ASKS me about the sound, I'll have to make some suggestions. I guess. Ern

[mazz]

Ern,A few years ago, a friend of my wife's released a CD that was pretty marginal and not commercially viable at all. The response we can up with was "well, it certainly sounds like you!". That was the truth. Not sure if that helps but it helped us from not having to go too far in to it with her.I don't think you should say anything about the sound unless he asks. Mazz

[tedsingingfox]

Hey, Ern.I don't envy you being in that position, but I also feel pretty certain you have the smarts, the experience, and the practical know-how to offer positive feedback without handing your friend a load...And if it does get dicey, just remember that -as long as the weight is evenly distributed- it really IS possible for a man to lay down on a bed of nails without drawing blood.OK, that was a fairly unclear analogy. How about this? Don't stay to focused too long on one issue. And try to follow up the downsides with upsides, and be SURE to end on a positive note.You know this.$.02Ted