What Do I Say?

[ernstinen]

Thanks again, everyone, for all your ideas! Yea, I agree --- why do I have to be the one to tell him about the sound!? I think I'll give it a few more listens and tell him what I DO like about it and leave it at that for now (unless he asks me --- Then I'll recommend a remaster).My friend's got a knack for melodies and lyrics, and did it just for fun (he's an attorney). Unfortunately, he gave out lots of this CD to his friends at his Christmas party on Saturday night. Most of his friends are either attorneys or golf buddies, so maybe no one will know the difference (but I'll bet someone will). Once again, I appreciate your varied replies!Ern

[nickbatzdorf]

"one of my other best friends recently told me he did NOT want one of my symphonic CD's ("Not my cup of tea"). "Ern, do you remember going on a date with a girl you realize not interested in? I don't after 19 years. But if you do, did you find it necessary to tell the girl that you wouldn't be calling her again because she wasn't your cup of tea? Or because after spending an evening with her you realized that she simply isn't good enough for you?Your friend is an ass. He should have taken your CD and said thanks, he enjoyed listening to it. You can say the same thing to your friend. He'll hear from many other people that it sucks; you don't have to be one of them.There's a lot to be said for keeping your mouth shut!

[ernstinen]

Quote:"one of my other best friends recently told me he did NOT want one of my symphonic CD's ("Not my cup of tea"). "Ern, do you remember going on a date with a girl you realize not interested in? I don't after 19 years. But if you do, did you find it necessary to tell the girl that you wouldn't be calling her again because she wasn't your cup of tea? Or because after spending an evening with her you realized that she simply isn't good enough for you?Your friend is an ass. He should have taken your CD and said thanks, he enjoyed listening to it. You can say the same thing to your friend. He'll hear from many other people that it sucks; you don't have to be one of them.There's a lot to be said for keeping your mouth shut!Ah, Nick, you wise sage! Good to read your opinion and parable. Yup, my "cup of tea" friend IS an ass! LOL! That's the best laugh I've had all day --- Thanks for that!Best Regards,Ern

[andreh]

Ern-There are ways to be supportive and honest at the same time. Wouldn't your friend expect & appreciate you, of all people (being an excellent engineer yourself), to be upfront in ways that can help him end up with a better-sounding CD?It's ironic that we can be so brutally honest in semi-anonymous forum company, but we feel conflicted when it comes to telling the truth to people we truly know and care about. André

[anne]

Hi Ern - I don't envy you. I think there are some fine suggestions on the board, and I just wanted to say that I've been in the same situation with the same songwriter 3 different times on 3 different CDs - it is a really tough situation. The first time, I used the comparison method ("I would have expected some build like in this song...) and also definitely left it on a positive note, emphasizing the great melodic structure and performances. That one went rough, but ok.On the second one I thought I was listening to a rough mix and said "wow, this music rocks - when is it getting finished up and mastered?" Dead silence for a response and then a "that is the CD from the duplicator". Ooops...The 3rd cd came to me with good tracks but not mixed as well as they should be to make the most of the music. I made the suggestion of getting a producer to notch up the mix a bit and bring in tricks and techniques they may not know of. The band produced it. That suggestion went over like a bomb.So, now #4 is on its way and I'll probably just smile and say thanks. I just don't seem to win when it comes to honest feedback with this band.

[ernstinen]

Quote:Ern-There are ways to be supportive and honest at the same time. Wouldn't your friend expect & appreciate you, of all people (being an excellent engineer yourself), to be upfront in ways that can help him end up with a better-sounding CD?Good point, Andreh. I'll keep that in mind.Quote:It's ironic that we can be so brutally honest in semi-anonymous forum company, but we feel conflicted when it comes to telling the truth to people we truly know and care about. Yes, that's true, Andreh. For instance, IMHO you REALLY need to go to LensCrafters and get some new glasses, dude! Ern

[andreh]

Quote:Quote:It's ironic that we can be so brutally honest in semi-anonymous forum company, but we feel conflicted when it comes to telling the truth to people we truly know and care about. Yes, that's true, Andreh. For instance, IMHO you REALLY need to go to LensCrafters and get some new glasses, dude! Ern LOL! <--- Are these any better? Just tell me what I want to hear... André

[ragani]

Gosh, Ern, I'm reading this thread for the first time, and I really feel for you. I have to assume that your friend knows that you are a professional musician, and I must wonder why he didn't show you any mixes BEFORE the CD was completed. I know when people give me a completed CD, without showing me any earlier mixes, they usually just want praise. They are proud to have a completed CD. It's tough with friends who give you CD's, but I have the rule that unless they actually ask me for direct feedback on the songs, I don't give it to them. And I'm serious about that too. Most people don't want real feedback (or they would have asked me when they were doing the mixes-- and BTW, I would have gladly given it to them then!). And if they want REAL feedback, I make sure to clarify that-- are you asking me to give you feedback on the mix, the lyrics, or what specifically would you like me to listen to? That usually let's them know I'm serious (and let's them know too that there may be some issues to talk about). Usually people know that if they give me something good, and I know it's good, I'll tell them upfront without those other additional questions. So the additional questions are a subtle way of letting them know I may have more to say (if they really want to hear it). And if they really want to hear it, I do it as gently as I can-- Antonio was right on. Keeping the "it" in there rather than the "you" would be a great idea at that point. But they just pressed their CD's, and there's a good chance they won't really want to hear feedback that tells them that they might have better spent their $500 on a remix rather than a pressing...And if there is so much to fix that it's hard to find where to start, and you really would prefer not to say anything... I love the backdoor response that Mazz offered:Quote:The response we can up with was "well, it certainly sounds like you!". That was the truth. Not sure if that helps but it helped us from not having to go too far in to it with her.Might do the trick in a pinch! Good luck to you. As an aside, I always remind myself that in many spiritual traditions, the virtue of non-harming is considered to be a higher priority than telling the absolute, naked truth... for whatever it's worth. Raags

[ddusty]

Ern,You can always just send him this link at least he will know how long and hard you suffered with the decision.

[squids]

Quote:Ern,You can always just send him this link at least he will know how long and hard you suffered with the decision.dusty!! ROFL! Good one. Ern, here's my .02......jes because we all fool around with music doesn't make us responsible for others' work. Sure, we'll pop in the forums and drop a few comments if someone's asking but this isn't the same environment as the one you're talking about.I'm with those who say 'don't ask, don't tell'.......if the boy don't ask, don't offer.And your cup of tea friend? Well, tch. I get that so many people think they absolutely MUST be OPEN and so HONEST with their feelings to every single person they run into ("I gotta be true to myself, man!") but honestly?? (heh) , I grounded my kid for that once......time and place, ya know? Your boy missed the boat on timing (and taste and nice manners).