Screener says my brass sounds suck...

[kevinmathie]

OK, maybe not in those exact words, but he did say that the brass sounds at the end of this song...http://www.taximusic.com/song.php?song_ ... rue...were "too synthy" and therefore I didn't get a forward for the listing I submitted it for.I was using the VSL Opus 1 & 2 sounds. Maybe I need to finally break down and purchase the Vienna Symphonic Library Brass 1 & 2 collection, but each collection is almost $1500, so I'm looking at $3000. That'd be a nice thing to have, but...So, does anyone have any suggestions on other brass sounds? Or, maybe I'm just not utilizing my Opus 1 & 2 collection the way I should. Any advice in that area?Thanks!Kevin

[matto]

Yeah...a little synthy there. 1- I would put a lot more bigger hall verb on the hit type stuff, cause the brass is usually in the back of the orchestra and thus sounds wetter. 2- The part that really sounds fake is that legato line at :42 (and repeated later) starting out on the trumpet and then being picked up by the FHorn (I think). That's a dead give-away.If you think that part is needed, I would put it on woodwinds. Or just leave it out altogether or replace it with a different part/line.3- Around 1:05 there's fast staccato type part on the low brass that sounds a little fake too, maybe you can double that with something (low strings?) to make it less obvious. It's just the kind of thing where the sample's attack can't quite keep up with the fast pace of the part...I think the rest sounds fine and forwardable.When I write for "fake orchestra" I always have one primary goal...that it not sound fake. That takes precendence over pretty much anything else. If I have an idea for a cool part or line and it sounds fake with my samples, I simply throw it out or put it on some instrument where it doesn't sound fake. Sound takes precedent over composition in a sense. Or to put it in another way, I write for the "sampled orchestra" and to it's strengths, I don't write for "real orchestra" and then try to realize that with the samples at hand. The better your samples, the less you have to do this, but you always have to do it to some degree, IMHO.HTH,matto

[kevinmathie]

Quote:Sound takes precedent over composition in a sense. Or to put it in another way, I write for the "sampled orchestra" and to it's strengths, I don't write for "real orchestra" and then try to realize that with the samples at hand. The better your samples, the less you have to do this, but you always have to do it to some degree, IMHO.That's really great advice, actually. Yeah, I need to think more along those lines rather than what I want compositionally, don't I?Out of curiosity, for orchestral cues like this, what sample library do you tend to use?Kevin

[matto]

EWQL Gold XP.I have some of the Vienna stuff (the orchestra that came with Kontakt 2, which is really cut down version of Opus), but I tend to use Gold almost exclusively. It just seems to sound better with less work for this kind of dramatic stuff. More fat and power. That's really what it was designed for. Vienna is more versatile and better for traditional classical music, but it takes a good bit more work to make it sound "Hollywood".

[kevinmathie]

Excellent! Thanks. I'll check out those sounds.

[matto]

It might be a good complement to what you have...and the Gold bundle can be found on sale for around $500, so it's a LOT less money than full Vienna Brass. Which I'm sure is fantastic, but so is the price tag .

[gerrel]

To really be Honest with you Kevin! Sometimes it may be you have to play around with diffrant effects on the sonds. Maybe it you made the horns wetter and like was said before put it in hall effect it would sound even better. Because now it sounds flat. When I say flat I dont mean note wise. I mean like its dry in places were it should be wet. You may have to spend a few hours just adding and taking away effects then playing a already released album and compare! The song sound cool to me. Just sound like the intruments or clustered together. The wet effects would give it spacious smoothness. But it all comes down to what YOU think though! Gerr-EL

[ncc1701]

Or you can do what I did - marry a trumpet player and give birth to a trombonist.(I know, I know, the mental picture there is worth a thousand words ...)

[kevinmathie]

Excellent suggestions everyone. Thanks! I'm going to play with the reverb just to see what it does. However, I'm totally open to buying new sounds.Of course, I love buying new sound libraries and spending the afternoon trying out all the sounds. It's not quite as good as the old days when I'd buy a new keyboard (complete with that "new gear" smell ), but the sounds today sure are better.

[avillaronga]

Quote:Or you can do what I did - marry a trumpet player and give birth to a trombonist.Are they for hire? Since I'm already married and my daughter has no interest in brass that would be another alternative. I personally have found it difficult to get realistic brass sounds out of samplers. I recently bought EWQL Gold XP but I have not yet tried their brass sounds. I usually hire a trumpet player to play some of the parts that I think are needed and cannot get from a sampler. Sometimes combining one real sound with one fake makes a world of difference (I have written parts where I combine the real trumpet with a sampled french horn and it sounds OK). But if you don't want the expense of a real player then doing what matto suggests is a good alternative, learn to compose with what you have. It is not rare for me to try a certain melody with 4 or 5 different instruments before I decide which one will end up playing it. Btw, I thought the sale price of $500 for EWQL Gold ended on October 31 so hopefully they have extended the sale.Antonio