How do I get crunchier guitars?

[clonsberry]

I've got tracks that I'm recording guitar for. Metal and hard rock type stuff. It's not horrible but it's not what I'm looking for and we're always trying to step it up, right?I'm using a stock Fender Strat. (I also have an SG clone if that would work better). I'm running into a Zoom 8 and then directly into the computer. I'm looking for a crunchy guitar sound such as you hear in Avenged Seven Fold or Masterplan music. Really just a wall of guitar. I've tweaked on this forever and can't quite get there. I've done two rhythm guitar tracks hard panned to each side. But it never quite gets solid enough (and usually just gets boomy). Can anyone tell me what they're doing for a hard guitar sound? Should I be thinking about EQ'ing certain bands? Should I be using a limiter? Compressor? Do I have to go to alternate tunings? What are other people doing?Thanks!

[allends]

Quote:...I'm looking for a crunchy guitar sound such as you hear in Avenged Seven Fold or Masterplan music. Really just a wall of guitar.Your humbucker axe with a Marshall stack setting on the Zoom would be a good starting point. I would record on mono and add a delay effect that pans the original signal hard left and pans the delay signal hard right by up to 10ms. But beware: phase effects might be heard by those who playback your track in mono. To avoid that, listen to your results in mono (easy to do if your output is to its own bus - just toggle your stereo/mono switch). If you hear undesirable phase effects during playback then simply tweak the delay time in your effect by very small amounts until they go away. When that is done you can switch back to stereo and enjoy your huge sounding rhythm track.Of course, if you still don't like the tone you'll want to work with other Zoom settings or a plug-in to fatten it up (Amplitube, etc.). I'm assuming you're not considering micing an amp.The above wouldn't be advisable for front-&-center lead lines.-Allen

[tuite]

Hey man!For a start, Avenged Sevenfold use expensive guitars recorded with loud expensive stacks miked with expensive pre-amps etc. Your not going to get exactly whats on the cd but you should get close enough.I agree with allends on the amp choice although Randall or Mesa Boogie would be thicker sounding if you have them? Turn the gain to about 6. You might have had it on 11 or so but you will find that, on recordings, gains are set lower. This is to leave space for vox and because a lot ot the time, tracks are doubled etc. Listen closely to guitar sounds, just because its powerful doesn`t mean its full of gain. Put the bass to 7 the mid to 4 and the treble on 8.Zoom make terrible gear imho and DI`ing an electric will seriously take away from the tone. A speaker cab makes up a lot of an amps tone and without one, your not gonna get the same sound!EQ out aroung 8 to 12db at 70-85hz. This will clean it up a little. A compressor or limiter etc. shoudln`t be needed. A gate might be used on heavier gain settings to clean it up a little perhaps.I think it will sound better double tracked, the way you had it! Just experiment with the EQ and the gain etc.Can you post samples?

[grannyflats]

I'm new at this - just posted a reply but it came up as a new topic.javascript:add("%20:o") Here's a guy that blogs about production. He just added one on making beats with crunchy guitar sounds. http://teft.mimiandteft.com/2007/08/14/ ... s/#more-82

[elser]

I doubt you'll ever get what your looking for from the Zoom. My personal favorite for direct recording is Amplitube. I've got a POD and Sansamp and about 5 guitar amps including Hiwatts and Marshalls and my favorite by far for recording in a personal studio is Amplitube.

[mattfig]

Everyone makes strong points here....For the bands you have mentioned, it would help to scoop the mids on your guitars....Take away some dbs at around 1khz and you may find that sound to be more accurate...I don't know too much about Zoom effects but have found my PODxt to be handy for many applications...Once you find a setting you like, try recording using that same setup with two different guitars panned hard left and right...Although if you have a single coil Strat- you will lose some crunch...Best of luck!

[taxijon]

Hi Guys and gals. First post! Yes I do work for TAXI, in the member services department. Set up the account to answer questions about TAXI, but I thought I could help here.I've played metal for 10 years and spent a good amount of time perfecting my sound. My sound was originally modeled off of the late 90's sound and I like my distortion to be crunchy and tight. To get that effect on any amp I scoop the mids like mattfig posted above. I normally remove all of the mid channel, sometimes I leave the mid at 1 or 2 for a less harsh sound. i then keep the bass around 5 and then boost the treble to around 7. For more crunch and less definition you can push the gain all the way pull it back for a tighter sound. You actually don't need a lot of distortion to get a good metal tone. I would use the SG clone instead of the strat, but if your multi tracking the guitar I like to use 2 different sounding guitars to get a beefier sound. I'm not familiar with your ZOOM, but if you are looking for A7X tone I would stick with the marshall setting. If you want to go heavier go with the boogie. I use a tiny bit of compression to tighten the whole thing up a bit. You could also try dropping the tuning a half step so the E's ar E flats. I'm pretty sure most metal bands now and days don't record in standard tuning. Drop D or E flat are favorites.Good luck!

[dhodgson]

The short answer?Get yourself a good humbucker guitar (not a Strat), double-track your rhythms using the bridge pickup, and pan hard L/R. Record one more track on the neck pickup, and pan just enough of this up the middle to add some warmth and help solidfy the stereo field. Roll off the bass on the guitar amp sufficiently to get rid of the woof and rumble, and let the bass guitar do its job. Back off on your guitar amp's gain - what you're looking for is warm natural compression and body, not thin fizziness. Find the best-sounding amp (or amp model) tone that fits the context of the song. Use your ears. Compress all your tracks, bus them together and consider compressing them again. Save the delay trickery as a last resort; done properly, you probably won't be needing it.Don't Neglect Your Mids. This is THE noob recording mistake, because what sounds good to you when playing by yourself In Your Bedroom is NOT what sounds good on tape in the context of a mix. Fullness, body and attitude (think Slash) are all about mids; let the bass handle the lows and the cymbals handle the highs. It's their job!Even better - Record clean and reamp using an ampsim plugin like Line6's GearBox. Being able to make small tonal changes at mix time is a time (and life)-saver, and makes your editing and cleanup tasks much easier.-djh

[clonsberry]

Sorry folks. I posted the question, followed it for a couple days and then got swept into silly things like songwriting and stuff. Lots of great information though. I'm going to start experimenting with some of the suggestions.tuite, you asked for a sample. I just posted The Victor

[gitarrero]

Quote:Sorry folks. I posted the question, followed it for a couple days and then got swept into silly things like songwriting and stuff. Lots of great information though. I'm going to start experimenting with some of the suggestions.tuite, you asked for a sample. I just posted The Victorhow do you want the track to sound..? like 80s hardrock? for that the guitarsound defenitly would be to less distorted. I'd recommend a fat sounding humbucker (bridge position) and an amp (-simulator) that delivers a distorted (but not too much gain!) sound, like line 6 pod2 (I don't know the other line 6 products well, but this unit would definitly be able to deliver such a sound).cheers,martin