Demo Production

[ljweber70]

I'm a new member to Taxi hoping to someday get my music published (not looking for a record deal.) I'm also a new member of Just Plain Folks and have uploaded a couple of demos to the JPF website in order to get some peer feedback. I've noticed that alot of people's feedback has to do with the length of the song (too short) and production of the demo. I've read Jay Warner's "How To Get Your Hit Song Published" and have to agree that 'less is more' and that more often than not, demos are overproduced. A good, clear vocal up front is most important. In fact, the advice is to get to the lyrics quickly and don't put a bunch of instrument solos in your demo -- that is the job of the producer. It is said that good publishers, A&R execs, producers, etc. can hear a hit song with just a guitar and vocal. I tend to agree. Any comments or experiences with this issue?Thanks,Larry Weber

[billg]

Well, here's what I think. I'm an old guy who has been writing songs (or trying to!) for a some time. In the 70's and 80's I think demo production was a lot less important than it is today. In the 80's the band I was in (and writing for) was offered a major label recording contract based on songs we had recorded with a demo allowance that came as a result of some very basic demos. In other words, they liked what they heard from the basic demos enough to give us some money to make better "demos." I think that these days digital recording gear has made it so affordable to make a decent recording that the big fat demo allowance has pretty much gone out the window. I think you're hurting your chances with a poor demo. I'm not even so sure that the majority of publishers & A&R guys are as good at picking out a "song" and keeping production out of the picture as they used to be, mainly because they don't have to. Even though no one wants to admit it, it seems that more and more production is becoming part of the song. I don't think that's good & I don't like it, but I think I'm right . . . it's just the way it is now -billg

[bvbridges]

for my two cents, I just received my first critque through taxi, and the overall sentiment was they liked it lyrically and the direction of the song, but they didn't forward it because the vocal performance was lacking. I was surprised because I assumed that I was just trying to sale the concept, and the interested party would have their own producers that could make their own vocal performance something they could distribute, but that apparently isn't the case, at least according to this particular judge. I'm concerned because I submitted other songs with the same mind frame, with even further sub par vocal performances, so I fear I will need to go back and re-record these demos with much improved performances.

[Casey H]

Quote:for my two cents, I just received my first critique through taxi, and the overall sentiment was they liked it lyrically and the direction of the song, but they didn't forward it because the vocal performance was lacking. I was surprised because I assumed that I was just trying to sale the concept, and the interested party would have their own producers that could make their own vocal performance something they could distribute, but that apparently isn't the case, at least according to this particular judge. I'm concerned because I submitted other songs with the same mind frame, with even further sub par vocal performances, so I fear I will need to go back and re-record these demos with much improved performances. Hi Can you post what the listing was? Also, it would be very helpful it you posted a link for us to hear the track.I'm assuming the listing was a pitch for an artist, not film/TV since you were surprised that the vocal performance mattered. Song pitches to artists have lower requirements for production than film/TV. However, with today's affordable home studio equipment, you are competing against some great demos. So, many A&R folks won't pay much attention to a poor demo. It all depends on what is meant by a non-acceptable vocal performance. Off-key will be a deal-killer. Production DOES NOT have to be elaborate but it must be clean, not too "busy", and have clear upfront, on-pitch vocals that make the lyrics hear-able. A clean guitar or piano and vocal is better than an elaborate production that is distracting or sounds like you are trying to make a mediocre song great with production.BTW, with so many opportunities in film/TV today, you may want to investigate how to make or buy better demos. That way you get the best of both worlds in terms of pitches.I hope this was helpful... Casey

[stick]

Yeah, back in my publishing deal days, we went for the best "record production" for every demo we did. The less "work" the A&R guy had to do to "hear the song" the better. Of course, we were pitching for pop and pop/rock artists. The trouble there is if your demo singer is better than the artist, the artist will be intimidated by the demo... it's a tough balance. And, we were also trying to show off ourselves as producers as well, in hopes that we'd "get heard" and hopefully hired to work on the record that the song would go on, so that was extra incentive to make the tracks really great sounding.

[chrisbee]

Quote:I'm a new member to Taxi hoping to someday get my music published (not looking for a record deal.) I'm also a new member of Just Plain Folks and have uploaded a couple of demos to the JPF website in order to get some peer feedback. I've noticed that alot of people's feedback has to do with the length of the song (too short) and production of the demo. I've read Jay Warner's "How To Get Your Hit Song Published" and have to agree that 'less is more' and that more often than not, demos are overproduced. A good, clear vocal up front is most important. In fact, the advice is to get to the lyrics quickly and don't put a bunch of instrument solos in your demo -- that is the job of the producer. It is said that good publishers, A&R execs, producers, etc. can hear a hit song with just a guitar and vocal. I tend to agree. Any comments or experiences with this issue?Thanks,Larry WeberHey Larry! Welcome to TAXI! There's some really good advice from the other members who've responded that I totally agree with!The only thing I'd add is that the best way to look at it is that you want nothing to distract or "take away" from your song. A pitchy vocal will make a screener notice itself and that's NOT what you want. Your concern about over-producing, I think, is legitimate, but a bad mix or poor performance just gets in the way.I think (this is just my opinion) that it's human nature for A&R people to look for reasons to exclude a song because they have soooo many to go thru. It's kind of like if you needed to hire someone for a job where you work and you received 200 resumes. You would eventually stop reading them all the way thru and start looking for reasons to eliminate people because 200 is overwhelming. Then once you had a "short list", you could really look at them in depth. Same thing applies here. You have to remove reasons they can find to exclude your tune from the "short list".& don't get too discouraged about returns. When I first started with TAXI I was convinced that a few of my tunes were "hits" and submitted them all over the place & they were rejected every flippin' time! But eventually I figured it out. There is a learning curve.Btw, I think that your idea of not doing long intros & extended instrumental breaks is a good direction to go since you really just want to find a publisher. Simpler is better - you're right - but it just needs to be clean.

[dayson1]

I'm glad Larry brought this up I've been trying to get an answer to this question for a few days, without any luck yet Does anyone know if a guitar/vocal can get a forward for the high bar country listings if they meet all the listings criteria?Meaning the song is on Target, sound is clean and the vocal helps to sell the song ect.Has anyone here gotten a forward on a guitar vocal for a high-bar Country listing they want to brag about or share privately by shooting me a PM?I am looking to join in a few days, so this would be extremely helpful to me Thanks in advance to anyone who can shed some light on this for me-Dana

[bruciekins]

IMHO it all depends on the song, e.g. the song by Extreme "More Than Words"- which was a hit. The record is just one guitar and two voices- but the song didn't need anything else. Apart from that, I'm not sure that there is such a thing as a demo anymore. Anything you submit should be the best you can make it- given the constraints you have, (time, money, equipment etc.). There is a long and rocky road of up-grades and purchases- with no end in sight. Still, it's better than wasting your money on food, rent and transport LOL.

[mazz]

This thread my help shed some light on this issue. I suggest scrolling down to matto's post regarding a demo as a job interview:http://taxi.proboards27.com/index.cgi?b ... 787950Good luck,Mazz