Tuning the control room.....???

[arkjack]

In my ongoing music studies I've been focusing on engineering aspects. I started reading some lectures raising some interesting questions about tuning the control room. The concept is that there should be an accurate relationship between the audio signals in the system, the meters on the console, the actual adjustment any given knob makes, and the actual sound reproduction by the monitors in the room that change the DB SPL of the actual sound. For example, an acoustic guitar part of chords is played in the "studio".... the actual volume or amplitude of the sound is 60DB SPL..... the microphone on channel one going through its chain of mic pre-amp, compressor, EQ, and insert effects is going to convert that sound to an audio signal at some XX Dbv..... and the digital recorder will convert that signal to numerical data representing the signal.... at digital XX DB full scale..... If my system is "in tune", when I playback the digital information and it reconverts to analog signal then is fed to the monitors where it is converted from signal into air energy by the speaker, the accurate reproduction of that acoustic guitar in playback comes through at 60 DB SPL in the control room... (assuming that 0 db on the represents the nominal level....) the same as it sounded in the studio room where it was originally played.... not to mention the fact that the playback has to match all the frequencies at the proper amplitude for an accurate reproduction. Likewise, if I want to boost or cut the overall loudness of the whole track, when I turn the "knob' or push the fader up by 3 DBu on the console meter... I have to know as the engineer that the reproduction from the speaker translation is matched to the same level of DB SPL increase that the console meter says..... To take it a step further... if I want to EQ and boost a range of frequency in the track 3dbu say... at 1000HZ to 1500HZ, the translation again "should" accurately or even precisely reproduce that in the actual sound output.... and that result should be measurable by some type of instrument....I guess the reason I bring this up is that I have a lot of gear in my studio, and the studio control room area is pretty tight, dry, and quiet.... but that doesn't mean its necessarily tuned between all the pieces of gear..... I've never tuned it.So I'm wondering with all the tracks mixes and masters I've done in the past 5 years where I'm just turning knobs and pushing faders and adding effects.... if that is all for naught because I haven't addressed whether the adjustments I make on the console are actually correlated to what I hear coming out of the monitors...... I'd like to hear some forum feedback from the experienced engineers as to whether this is a valid concept and what others have done or are doing to address it. I haven't had a single forward in two years.... and I'm wondering if the need to improve the overall mix is one of the things holding me back.... ie. what I hear in the final mix in the control room doesn't sound as good through the taxi screener's headphones..... Would it be a prudent investment to get someone to come into my space and tune and calibrate the components as opposed to buying more gear that doesn't fix or only masks the problems of loose calibration.....????ArkJack

[mazz]

Ultimately all the dBVs and dBUs and dBFS are moot if your room/speaker system is lying to you. I think that buying more gear isn't the issue. Having someone tune your room may be a better investment if you're going to invest money anyway.Gain staging (which is what you're really talking about here) is very critical but you can do it with the gear you have and your ears. Also, it's a noble endeavor to hear the signal at the same acoustic amplitude that it was recorded at but I don't think you want to hear the same SPLs that the SM57 against the speaker of that guitar amp is hearing! I don't buy it! There's no rule as to what level an engineer monitors at for mixing music (there is for film mixers). In fact, it's advisable to test the mixes at different levels because they reveal different aspects of the mix.I suggest you spend some time studying some of the acoustic treatments out there. The websites of the manufacturers of these treatements have tons of good information. Checking your mixes on a variety of systems before signing off on them is a practice I highly recommend. This actually helps you learn what your room and speakers are doing to your mixes. If you don't hear any bass in your studio then you'll boost the bass and then your car speakers will beat themselves to death trying to reproduce what you added. Over time, you'll learn to understand the bass response of your system and will know how much bass is enough. Of course, it's always better to have a well tuned room, if possible.This comes up a lot on the forum, there's been a big discussion already this year about this. I suggest searching the forum.Also, the guy who you need to talk to about this is Stick. Hopefully he'll resopond to this and add some info from his years of experience.Mazz

[dominic]

agreed.I try to listen to my mixes on as many sources as possible, often remixing and remastering 10-20-30+ times. Take it to your car stereo and your ipod. Hook up a boombox from a thrift store to your studio and A/B those speakers with your studio monitors. If it sounds good on a $20 set of acme brand speakers, it'll most likely sound good on anyones system. they even have an item called "mix cubes" out there that are basically a crappy set of monitors for a couple hundred bucks that let you hear how your mix will sound on anything.I'd also say dont get too bogged down with science. You're a musician first right? so concentrate on your music. Dont get me wrong. Its great to learn as much as humanly possible but you can spend years learning about sound travel, electronics, acoustics, metering, harmonics, sound treatment, the way an ear hears, conversion ratios, the sound of one hand clapping etc etc and still not make any music. Balance is key I guess, like with everything in life.

[matto]

Arkjack*IF* it's really the quality of your mixes that keeps you from getting forwarded - which is not something you should just assume unless the screeners are specifically telling you that - there could be many reasons why your mixes don't hold up, and "tuning the control room" in the sense in which you describe it is pretty much guaranteed not to be one of them. Having your equipment properly calibrated and interfaced is important, but most of the time the gear comes properly set up from the factory to be hooked up together, and if it isn't it should be quite obvious. Proper gain stagin is also important, but again fairly common sense and easily achieved without the aid of a specialist.IMHO, the most likely culprits for bad mixes are: 1- lack of engineering skills and experience, 2- a room that colors your sound through standing waves or spectrally uneven absorption/reflection, and 3- an inaccurate monitoring chain (amp/speakers). In that order.matto

[arkjack]

I try to listen to my mixes on as many sources as possible, often remixing and remastering 10-20-30+ times.Boy I wish I could figure out that quote thing...... Thanks for the replies.... they all add a dose of reason so that I don't wind up going crazy with it..... For me... it es back to my same recurring problem..... I work too fast and don't have the .... mindset... to put in the additional time that may be needed to perfect the mixes.... for a 5 minute tune..... remix and remaster 20 to 30 times is 2.5 hours of back to back replay.... and that means 5 hours if you re-listen to each remix one time through ..... I spend too much time goofing off fishing, placating whining wife and kids, and working or going to the beach and drinking forwards...... so that 5 hours is a lot of time for me.... I'm thinking that I'll spend the weekend and remodel and rewire the studio and check into getting someone to "measure the room" so I have a better grasp of what the environment is actually doing and possibly find some ways to improve or correct it..... I know that my mixes are affecting my forwards and that the broadcast Q is demanding more than I have been producing..... I'm hoping a little tuning in the room will help me get to a great mix in 5 tries or less..... ArkJack

[aubreyz]

Unless your room is just AWFUL - if you are using quality, flat nearfields 6 ft or so from your listening point, about the only thing that would probably need to be "tuned" in your room might be the bass response. (a few bass traps can work wonders) However, comparison tests are even more important than room tuning IMHO- for instance, I had a standing wave problem in my room at around 160hz -- for some reason, all of my RTA tests missed it. However my mixes were sounding too bassy in other environments. Until I found the issue, I just compensated my mixes until they sounded right everywhere.I ended up fixing the 160hz null with some bass traps, and my room is pretty flat now, but I still don't trust my mixes until compared elsewhere. It has to sound good in my room on both sets of monitors, in my car, on my laptop, home stereo, etc... before it's done.Aub

[avillaronga]

Don't forget also that the most important piece of equipment you need to learn to "tune" is your own ears. All the equipment and professional advice in the world will matter next to nothing if you don't learn to listen properly. Learn the sound of your room to see if you are overcompensating for something on your mixes. For example, my headphones are really good at "hiding" the mid's (I only mix with headphones when working late at night... so that means often), I learned that and I know to watch out for that when mixing so I don't put the mids too up front because they will sound like AM radio on my monitors or any other system. A/B'ing your mixes is extremely important to achieve broadcast quality. The first time I received a critique asking me to compare my mixes to other recording of the same genre I sat firmly on my high horse... "how dare they ask me to compare myself to those mere mortals, I want my mixes to be unique"... two and a half years later, I learned that even if you want to sound unique, you still need to sound professional, the old "learn the rules before breaking them..." etc. After 12 forwards and counting, I think they were right, do compare your mixes to other recordings of the same genre (make them current recordings as well). Before I start any mix, I pick 3 or 4 songs to A/B with. I start by listening to those songs on my mixing room (or headphones if I'm in a rush and need to finish at night); once I get a good feel for where I want my sound to go in reference to those recordings, I start my mix and I periodically switch back to those recordings as my mix progresses. HTHAntonio

[mazz]

Quote:I try to listen to my mixes on as many sources as possible, often remixing and remastering 10-20-30+ times.Boy I wish I could figure out that quote thing...... Thanks for the replies.... they all add a dose of reason so that I don't wind up going crazy with it..... For me... it es back to my same recurring problem..... I work too fast and don't have the .... mindset... to put in the additional time that may be needed to perfect the mixes.... for a 5 minute tune..... remix and remaster 20 to 30 times is 2.5 hours of back to back replay.... and that means 5 hours if you re-listen to each remix one time through ..... I spend too much time goofing off fishing, placating whining wife and kids, and working or going to the beach and drinking forwards...... so that 5 hours is a lot of time for me.... I'm thinking that I'll spend the weekend and remodel and rewire the studio and check into getting someone to "measure the room" so I have a better grasp of what the environment is actually doing and possibly find some ways to improve or correct it..... I know that my mixes are affecting my forwards and that the broadcast Q is demanding more than I have been producing..... I'm hoping a little tuning in the room will help me get to a great mix in 5 tries or less..... ArkJackIt can sometimes take longer than 5 hours to get a mix where you want it. A few things that work for me are:1. Take a break. Don't mix for more than a couple of hours at a time and take short breathers in that time and then get away from it. Your ears start to shut down and your mind starts to play tricks on you and then many times you end up chasing your tail.2. Give it the "morning after" test. If it still excites you then next morning when your ears and mind are refreshed, then it's probably a keeper.3. Know what you want the mix to sound like before you start mixing. Use reference mixes from other similar songs/artists. Maybe lay out a sonic picture of the panning of the instruments and think a little about what you want to drive the groove or how you want to build the piece sonically. Do you want the kick to drive the low end or the bass guitar? Is the vocal going to be doubled on the chorus only, on a few words only for emphasis? and on and on. Some of this can be done "off line" while fishing, surfing or drinking!4. Give the mix the "other room" test. Start the mix playing and go in to the next room. Leave the door open. Close the door. What do you hear? Does the vocal still come through? Is the vocal too loud/soft? How do the comparison mixes sound from this perspective?5. Listen in mono. Do the general balances still hold up? Do some widely panned elements get swallowed up? If so, you may need to reduce the panning or check your effects for phase issues.6. Listen very softly. As you turn it down, do important elements (voice, lead guitar) still maintain their prominence? You'll naturally lose highs and lows but the overall mix should still be discernable. Remember, with film and TV, more often than not, the music will be in the background. If the mix can't be put in the background and still sound like something more than a vocal solo, then it probably won't be used.7. Put it away for a while. Work on something else. You'll bring a new perspective and things you've learned from other mixes back to that piece.Take care and good luck!!!Mazz

[andreh]

Great points all around.To augment Mazz's suggestion #4, the vocal SHOULD come through in any of the scenarios presented. Of course it'll be less pronounced with the door closed (high freq's get occluded easier than lows), but since most home studios suffer from inaccurate bass response, a common problem in home mixes is an overabundance of "mud" that may not be heard in the mix position. This can lead to buried highs when listening from a different spot.André

[mazz]

Thanks for amplifying that point Andre.An example from my studio: At my mix position, which is not able to change given the realities of my room, I don't hear boominess in my mixes but if I get up and move 2 feet back and to the right, the bass gets a lot louder. I have learned to move between these positions when mixing and have found a pretty happy medium, at least to my ears. This way I don't add too much bass to make it feel "full" when I'm in my chair. I can crank my speakers and get the bass balanced but only for short periods of time! I want to be doing this long after I grow up and it's hard to compose and mix if I can't hear!Great to see you sneaking in every once in a while, Andre!Mazz