Uncleared Samples

[mazz]

Learning to engineer and orchestrate and compose and record and mix and master, etc., etc., has enhanced my musicianship. I don't consider them seperate at all. When I play the occasional live gig, recording and composing has helped me listen in a new way to the other players and helps me play better. When I record and arrange, my live playing experience helps me create (hopefully) more convincing parts for instruments that I don't play. They all feed each other and there is a strong connection between all of the disciplines. As a musician you have a head start on someone who goes in to engineering from a purely technical background. The technical stuff is relatively easy to learn, when it comes to applying the technology tastefully, that is where having a background as a musician can really help.You'll start to get over the hump on the technical stuff and you'll be able to make it do your bidding more and more successfully. It's all about the music in the first place so don't get hung up on the gear and tech crap. It's all just another tool! Just like Big Bertha!Mazz

[backtalkunlimited]

Mazz: A light is slowly beginning to shine. In order to make it shine brighter, I will need to expose more of my ignorance (which knows no bounds). Here goes:My problem with "General Midi" sounds: My Roland FantomX7 can produce all these wonderful sounds and samples. I can listen to them through Fantom X7 all day, no problem. When I record from Fantom, I save the output as a MID file, which I then export to my computer. Then, if I were to import these midi instructions into, say, Band-in-a-Box (BiaB), I can edit them, embellish upon them, etc. to my heart's content. But, when I create a WAV file from the finished product by using BiaB, what I get are the sounds produced by BiaB as played through Creative SoundBlaster Audigy 2NX, which are GM sounds rather than the dulcet tones produced by FantomX7. Frankly speaking, GM does NOT do a very good job of emulating natural instruments, particularly saxophones (which all sound to me like comb-kazoos!)Conclusion: I input FantomX7's silk purse into BiaB, but what I get out is GM's sow's ear. This continues to be a major source of frustration.I MUST be missing something here! Is there a way to impose Fantom X7 output upon BiaB so that the resulting WAV file produced by BiaB emulates the sounds originally produced by FantomX7 (and NOT GM sounds)??? Am I making any sense,or am I mixing apples with oranges?Perhaps BiaB isn't capable of chewing that which I've bitten off.In this case, I might turn to SONAR, hoping for significantly better results when I listen to the final WAV file produced from SONAR-edited midi information. If nothing else, it should be clear from the foregoing that I SORELY need someone to point my nose in the right direction. If you can interpret the foregoing constructively, then I look forward to receiving your authoritative response.-Alan (backtalkunlimited)* * *

[mazz]

OK Alan, now I see what you mean! Yes, you need to record the output of your Fantom back to your computer. I have a feeling it's sounds are much better than the GM sounds in your sound card!!If you like to compose in Band in a Box because of it's notation capabilities, I'd suggest exporting the MIDI file, importing it in to Sonar and do further tweaking there, all the while, using your Fantom as the sound source. Then record the output of your Fantom (audio) back to an audio track of Sonar.For extra points, record one track at a time back in to the computer, giving you more options on mixdown. Simply mute all the MIDI tracks except for one and record the result on an audio track. Then repeat with another MIDI track and audio track until they're all in there as audio.Good luck in this process, you're getting it!!!Mazz

[backtalkunlimited]

Mazz: If I understand correctly, Band in a Box (BiaB) might no longer be needed in the sequence of events unless I want to do a preliminary edit of the Fantom-generated midi file in BiaB before importing into SONAR.What I think you sed: (i) Fantom to computer (midi file), which then is imported into SONAR. (ii) Optimize/edit one midi track at a time, (iii) export each optimized/edited track as an audio (WAV) track, (iv) repeat with other midi tracks, and then (v) mix all individual exported WAV tracks to obtain the final audio product. The only limiting feature: At the moment, I don't know how to "use Fantom as the sound source" when working in SONAR. If I knew how to do this, I probably could solve 90% of the sound-quality problems that I have described in previous posts.It's surprisingly difficult to verbalize the situation, but I'll try:My understanding is that midi files are just a set of instructions. At the moment, when I import Fantom-generated midi files into BiaB, all of the sound-character of the original Fantom performance appears to be lost, and what comes out is good ol' GM sounds. Is there a way that FantomX7 sounds can be encoded into the midi file so that they will be reproduced when it comes time to exporting optimized/edited midi files as audio (WAV) files? What's not clear to me is whether or not the unique features of Fantom-generated sounds (as opposed to BiaB- or sound card-generated sounds) are preserved in the midi file that I export from Fantom to the computer. To put it another way: Exactly how can I make certain that I'm "using FantomX7 as the sound source" when editing files in SONAR? (Maybe I oughta know this, but I don't!)Can you please clarify? If I can get my ducks to line up properly, your suggested approach certainly must be tried, as I have nowhere to go from here but UP.My last question: How did we ever stray so far in this thread from the opening "Uncleared Samples" topic? I guess it's like passing a spoken phrase down a line of people. By the time the message reaches the last person in the chain, the substance of the original message has either been lost entirely or simply has become unrecognizable.Thanks very much for your suggestions.Alan

[mazz]

In order to do what I suggested, you need to have a MIDI and audio interface for your computer, which your sound card may already have.You import your MIDI files in to Sonar and then play them back via MIDI cable to the Fantom, what you're doing is triggering the Fantom from the computer, basically taking the place of the Fantom's internal sequencer.While Sonar is triggering the Fantom's internal sounds via MIDI, it's recording the Fantom's audio output by audio cables hooked up to the computer's audio input. You need two sets of cables, audio and MIDI.Remember, MIDI does not carry any audio information, it's up to you to provide that. I think the disconnect for you was that you were expecting the Fantom sounds to be embedded in the MIDI file. MIDI will never be able to do that.We're closing in on it. I suggest you check out some basic books on recording and MIDI, I think the TAXI web site has some listed. Others may have some ideas as well. I know we've strayed from the original thread but hopefully this basic discussion will have some value on the forum.Good luck,Mazz