BOSS BR900 & Computer

[daffsongwriter]

Thank you. I am not very technical at all with this and am finding it a headache learning, I get confused with mastering and what it really is and does. I found on Sunday I was blagging my way through the setting of the Eq and db ha ha. I did manage what I think was a master copy and my software on the pc did manage to convert that file off the cd to mp3 (my pc does not recognise the Boss machine even with software downloaded so I cannot use my pc to back up any files off the Boss).Basically I can record my tracks, i.e. I had the keyboard and its rythmn on track 1 & 2, guitar on 3, Vocals 4, different keyboard sound on 5 & 6 then thought shit, I cant put anything else on as 7 & 8 looked like they were just for the drum patterns. Anyway the only way I could get a decent volume was to bounce all that straight onto the cd as it was with the volume turned up and it sounded ok, not the best way to do it I know as I couldnt do any other fancy stuff with it. I had saved that song with a name so even though I had deleted what I had recorded previously I could call it up to bounce on to the cd.I am going to re do the whole song from fresh I think, the rythmn on the Boss sounds ok but again I am not technical enough to know how to get it to add the fill ins, in the right place of the song. With my keyboard though I can just click fill in, intro or ending as I am performing the track. I think I have to keep it simple cause it just does my head in sitting with it for hours on end trying to understand the instructions. I can do the practical ok but I am starting to think I wish I had never bought the machine, then on the other hand I dont want to give in to it.So at which stage do you go through and alter all the Eq and Db to, and what do they have to be altered to, or dont I need to touch them at all. Its after the recording of tracks that I need to know which stages I then go to as the book doesnt explain.Sorry if I sound a dumb bitch, I just want to get my songs uploaded, and I did upload one yesterday as a test and people came back to me with really nice feedback which has given me more insentive but because I am finding all these learning curves with the Boss its frustrating me.I wish the manual would just list a simple list of procedure from start to finish then I can look up the different parts at each stage. At least I have found how to do things with it and it is quite easy but its just knowing the stages, i.e. 1. record tracks, 2. mix down (presume that means putting multiple tracks together, 3. set Eq Db if needed to, 4. master, and so on.A lot of it is knowing what the terminology means which might be where I am feeling its going over my head.Thanks again for your help.Daff xx

[afranks]

Basically, I use track 7/8 for my drum machine and for bouncing down to since its already a stereo track. I purchased a DR 880 because I couldn't figure out how to use the drum machine on the 900 the way I wanted to. I can be a bit of a cement head at times.I don't touch the pan/eq until after I have recorded my basic tracks. I'll try to get a good sound and then leave it alone until I'm ready to do a basic mix (bounce to 7/8). At that point, I'll use the 'pan' to place the tracks where I want them. I tend to use the eq and reverb/delay functions (under loop effects) sparingly because alittle will go along way. I find that unless I'm going for a particular effect, it is better to just redo a track then to 'fix it in the mix'.There is a dvd on the 900 that I'm thinking of ordering. I still don't use half of the functions the recorder offers (drum machine, pitch control, ect...) I think that Amazon has it.

[arkjack]

I'll just add that for the money, the Boss units are pretty handy effective portable studios. Its not necessarily a million $$ sound.... but there is a lot of power in them compared to a $50,000 studio of 10 years ago that wasn't portable....Inasmuch as they have tried to make some very complex recording engineering functions user friendly, there is still definitely a learning curve that takes an investment of time to get the hang of.... but I think you'll have this kind of learning curve with whatever brand of machine, DAW, or PC based program you use.... it takes education and practice to become adept.... I started with the BR 864 about 5 years ago... they don't even make it anymore.... but I decided to keep upgrading in the Roland product line because I've gotten to know the software and the "way they think" in how they write the preset programs and tasks.... some consistency within each product, whether it be the digital recorder, the keyboard, the guitar synth, or effects..... With respect to programming the drums, the essential element I do when I'm making a full blown recording as opposed to a work demo is to write out a full chart of the song and mark out the measures and sections,.... then I can use a preset rhythm fill or step program my own and know the exact insertion and change points..... As far as knowing the technique for setting EQ and use of effects.... that's why recording engineering is a degree program in universities.... its engineering.... it takes a lot of time to self-educate and practice.... I got the Dave Moulton series of Platinum recording lectures and the Golden Ears ear training..... it was a few hundred bucks overall, but good value.... because one could spend a lot of money on the finest equipment and software, but the knowledge of what to use when, where, and how is just as essential.... and IMO you can make the less expensive equipment do more rather than hope expensive gear will do it for you.... so I say go for the DVD .... even a little knowledge can go a long way...ArkJack

[daffsongwriter]

Quote:Basically, I use track 7/8 for my drum machine and for bouncing down to since its already a stereo track. I purchased a DR 880 because I couldn't figure out how to use the drum machine on the 900 the way I wanted to. I can be a bit of a cement head at times.I don't touch the pan/eq until after I have recorded my basic tracks. I'll try to get a good sound and then leave it alone until I'm ready to do a basic mix (bounce to 7/8). At that point, I'll use the 'pan' to place the tracks where I want them. I tend to use the eq and reverb/delay functions (under loop effects) sparingly because alittle will go along way. I find that unless I'm going for a particular effect, it is better to just redo a track then to 'fix it in the mix'.There is a dvd on the 900 that I'm thinking of ordering. I still don't use half of the functions the recorder offers (drum machine, pitch control, ect...) I think that Amazon has it.I have heard about that dvd, might google for that and order it. I am glad I am not the only one who wants to keep it fairly simple. I was talking to Brian last night (another pianist) and he said a couple of things that made me think straight away. The manual explains in a different language but to be fair to it, it does explain every bit but I think I have tried to understand everything together.With mine being an 8 track, this means I can only get on 2 lots of keyboards (4 tracks gone), 1 vocals, 1 guitar, unless there is a way of adding more tracks to the final mixed down track (7/8). I uploaded my practise version on myspace so I could listen and check the sound is ok, and it was, so I have solved the low volume issue, thanks to all the helpful replies.I bet a lot of people dont use half the functions and the problem with the manual it doesnt give you the order of process from start to finish of recording a song. It gives you the simple recording but then goes on to every other function, not in the order of process.Brian has never even used his 12 tracker and he's had it years !! He said I have put him to shame, thing with me is I will attack the challenge and I wont give in.Hopefully soon I will be putting a message on saying that 'Field Of Emotions' is uploaded ready for listening to (god help you all, get your earplugs). Been concentrating on that one plus another for ages now and not getting on with the others cause their holding it all up, but then I have been learning about the Boss.I can see in time I will want to part ex it for a 16 tracker !! One thing at a time eh.Thank you for your advise on this.Daff x

[daffsongwriter]

Quote:I'll just add that for the money, the Boss units are pretty handy effective portable studios. Its not necessarily a million $$ sound.... but there is a lot of power in them compared to a $50,000 studio of 10 years ago that wasn't portable....Inasmuch as they have tried to make some very complex recording engineering functions user friendly, there is still definitely a learning curve that takes an investment of time to get the hang of.... but I think you'll have this kind of learning curve with whatever brand of machine, DAW, or PC based program you use.... it takes education and practice to become adept.... I started with the BR 864 about 5 years ago... they don't even make it anymore.... but I decided to keep upgrading in the Roland product line because I've gotten to know the software and the "way they think" in how they write the preset programs and tasks.... some consistency within each product, whether it be the digital recorder, the keyboard, the guitar synth, or effects..... With respect to programming the drums, the essential element I do when I'm making a full blown recording as opposed to a work demo is to write out a full chart of the song and mark out the measures and sections,.... then I can use a preset rhythm fill or step program my own and know the exact insertion and change points..... As far as knowing the technique for setting EQ and use of effects.... that's why recording engineering is a degree program in universities.... its engineering.... it takes a lot of time to self-educate and practice.... I got the Dave Moulton series of Platinum recording lectures and the Golden Ears ear training..... it was a few hundred bucks overall, but good value.... because one could spend a lot of money on the finest equipment and software, but the knowledge of what to use when, where, and how is just as essential.... and IMO you can make the less expensive equipment do more rather than hope expensive gear will do it for you.... so I say go for the DVD .... even a little knowledge can go a long way...ArkJackYour right - the dvd is a very good idea and I shall be ordering one.I am getting a lot better with this Boss now, the more I keep practising with it the more I feel I am getting more confidence so you are right in saying experience is the key.Also I have since found out that my local college are running a course on this from September onwards in the evenings so I am interested in doing that, not just for my own song producing, genuine interest in that field generally. I am quite happy to go to some lengths to learn more about this.Thank you ever so much for getting back to me, you have all been so kind.Daff xx

[afranks]

What you can do to use your 8 faders more effectively is to bounce or submix tracks together.For example, say that you have 3 stereo keyboard parts and drums on 7/8. all of these parts will be on virtual track one. You can switch to bounce record mode and assign the 900 to record on say virtual track 2 on faders 1 and 2. This should place all tree stereo pairs to tracks 1 and 2 during your mix down. You will have to remember to adust your pans and volume to where you think that you will want them during your final mix, but boucing related instrament into sub groups will allow you to use more of the virtual tracks that the 900 offers.If you want to do this, play around with the 900 a few times to get comfortable with this idea. I believe that the manual has a track sheet form in it that you can copy or write down your info in a notebook so that you know where everything is for mix down.I usually write down all pertinant info so it does not get lost in my head.Unlike the old 4 track cassette recorders, the 900 is digital so bounced tracks will not degrade. Also remember that the 900 can move or copy one track to another internally.At the end of this process, your mix down could look like this: Tracks 1/2 Keyboards 3/4 Guitars/Bass 5/6 Vocals/Backups 7/8 DrumsI hope this helps. Good luck.

[arkjack]

The other option is expanding the console by linking the 900 to a midi capable digital recorder or a midi recorder. In my set up, I have the BR864 as the master machine (it won't slave), but the 864 servo masters the BR1600, so it is synced with the 16 tracks of the 1600, and the 1600 masters over the Fantom's 16 track midi recorder.... the Fantom output submixes to the 864, and the 864 output submixes to the 1600. This in effect gives me 42 individually controlled tracks, control being level, pan, effects, and editiing...... The only limitation is that there is no "global" edit capability simultaneous to all 42 tracks.... like you might have in protools... but the physical control knobs are a feature you don't have in a software console.... but still can be done if you have the time and keep your wits about you.... The extra tracks are handy when you get into doubling and crossfade techniques .... Most of the time I work only with the 864, but the power is there for when I get the time, energy, inspiration to do something more elaborate....ArkJack

[daffsongwriter]

Ah great, thank you again all of you, I have printed off this thread so I can refer to it as and when, all of which is really helpful. In fact I had another question but one of you has answered it and its really straight forward. Brilliant.Hope you all have a great weekend, I am off to a few functions this weekend but will have plenty of time also to spend with my music, plus the bank holiday Monday.Love to you all.xx