Just 4 Fun: 4-Track Bouncing!

[ernstinen]

Hi Everyone!I thought I'd start a new thread based on bc's idea of sharing some old reel-to-reel or cassette demos from the analog days. This came up during the discussion on the "Higher End Studio Gear Can Make a Song" thread. --- Oh, the more bouncing, the better! bc's original post:"After lurking on this thread, I got the urge to dig up some old gear/tracks. Here's an old Teac Porta Studio 2mix (mucho bounces) I imported into PT and re cut the vocal. Not a great track but it was fun to revisit an ancient 2mix. I'm waxing nostalgic, but not enough to return to those days! http://paintriver.com/godspeed_032207.mp3I'll bet some of you guys have some old tape bounces that would be fun to hear."---------------------------------------------------Well, that inspired me to dig into my archives and find a couple songs that still sound O.K. The recordings of "The World Goes Round & Round" and "Swiss Pie" were done on a 1/4" 4-track Teac 3340-s (with some bouncing to another 3340-s) when I was a young pup (circa 1980). As I recall, all tracks used inexpensive dynamic mics, and we had no noise reduction, no compressors etc., and of course no sequencing. I did a little eq-ing in Pro Tools, and that's it. --- The band was STAGE 1, with me on guitar and lead vocals. --- Check 'em out at:http://www.broadjam.com/ernstinenLet's hear your stuff! Portastudio, Fostex, Yamaha, it's all good!Ern (Sgt. Pepper)

[arkjack]

Those are pretty cool and clean sounding mixes. I have a couple drawers full of 4 tracks from my Yamaha circa 1983... Actually, I just bought a Tascam 414II 4 track cassette that will hopefully let me resurrect and digitize some of the tracks.... but you have to wait till after tax season... The other impetus for getting an analog machine isn't all nostalgic... a lot of top engineers are using them in combo with digital... something about a deeper and wider field of sounds that digital doesn't replicate.... I figured it would be good to have one to experiment with.... I had a hard time getting the TASCAM, and that is the only model available I found that is equiped to do time stripe.... . I'm having a tough time finding the smpte interface unit as well..... there are a few units on ebay... but ... homey don't buy off ebay... the analog tape has gone away... the way of the dinosaur... so I have this little unit to work with as a tool .. just in case...ArkJack

[arkjack]

Just thought I'd share this with the group as a follow-up..... I just had a business meeting with a top engineer and we got into the discussion about using analog tape in tandem with digital......The procedure is apparently to record on the tape at a super high level to put a deep saturation of sound that you can't replicate in digital because digital theoretically never goes above zero while analog actually can get hotter with out the distortion... When the saturated sound from the tape is converted back to digital, it doesn't lose that fidelity, and you can use that hot track in conjunction with other parts that aren't as critical that are recorded in straight digital tracks. This supposedly catches better lows and highs when they're really needed. Once the tape track is digitized, you can import it into your DAW software... protools, or whatever. .... clean it up, add effects,....link up the sync with the digital tracks.... It also works in replay of a mixdown through the analog playback system.... draws out more highs and lows....So that's my story and I'm stickin' to it.....ArkJack

[ernstinen]

Quote:Just thought I'd share this with the group as a follow-up..... I just had a business meeting with a top engineer and we got into the discussion about using analog tape in tandem with digital......The procedure is apparently to record on the tape at a super high level to put a deep saturation of sound that you can't replicate in digital because digital theoretically never goes above zero while analog actually can get hotter with out the distortion... When the saturated sound from the tape is converted back to digital, it doesn't lose that fidelity, and you can use that hot track in conjunction with other parts that aren't as critical that are recorded in straight digital tracks. This supposedly catches better lows and highs when they're really needed. Once the tape track is digitized, you can import it into your DAW software... protools, or whatever. .... clean it up, add effects,....link up the sync with the digital tracks.... It also works in replay of a mixdown through the analog playback system.... draws out more highs and lows....So that's my story and I'm stickin' to it.....ArkJackYup, I've converted some HOT reel-to-reel recordings to DAT/CD, and it's amazing how much richer (and LOUDER) they sound as compared to strict digital recordings.A 16/44.1 digital recording can only reproduce frquencies up to 22.05 kHz (44.1 divided by 2). Analog tape records frequencies MUCH higher than that, so the "air" and openness that can be missing in a CD recording is obviously there in a good analog recording. --- Bob Moog (R.I.P.) explained this in an article I read once. I'm sure you can find it on Google if you're interested!Ern

[bc]

Errrrn! They bring a big grin to my face, in a nostalgic and appreciative way. I like 'em both. Very well done. Both cuts have a cozy (front seat at the club) feel. Swiss Pie is too funny.BTW: My current personal project is being tracked on 2" tape (using the original Mussel Shoals Neve board) then captured with PT HD. As you mentioned, the tape to dig process produces that "it" thingy which sounds better (to my beat up ol' ears) than straight to dig. best,bc

[ernstinen]

Quote:Errrrn! They bring a big grin to my face, in a nostalgic and appreciative way. I like 'em both. Very well done. Both cuts have a cozy (front seat at the club) feel. Swiss Pie is too funny.BTW: My current personal project is being tracked on 2" tape (using the original Mussel Shoals Neve board) then captured with PT HD. As you mentioned, the tape to dig process produces that "it" thingy which sounds better (to my beat up ol' ears) than straight to dig. Thanks, bc! "Swiss Pie" was when the band was at its creative peak, and "The World Goes Round & Round" was recorded around the time we were breaking up. Two opposite moods!That's cool you're recording onto 2" tape. I'm sure more people would do that if it wasn't so expensive. That's one main reason people switched to ADAT or DA-88 when they came out. --- There's a kd lang CD that was recorded on a DA-88 back then which sounds fantastic, so ya never know!Ern

[anne]

I love the flexibility of my digital set up, but I do miss the days of having 2- Teac 4 track RtoR decks with SimulSync and a nice clean Yamaha board. I miss it everytime I have to learn a new piece of software. I have been explaining the whole concept of tape and tape speed and all forms analog to my niece and nephew (budding musicians) and why it is good to understand the recording process and its history, even thought they are both performers. That, and I can impress them with my vast knowledge of a "dead" format along with tons of other impractical information. Another great work on tape? A great deal of work on the first solo album by Sting (Dream of the Blue Turtles) was recorded on a Teac 8 track 2" reel to reel. He auctioned it off for charity a while back and that was how I learned about the tale.I dream in Analog...

[mixopenta]

I once read about a leading mastering engineer who was faced with a real crappy digital master, suffering from a "flat surfaced", and 2 dimensional sound.No matter what he did, he couldn't bring any warmth into the recording. His remedy was to bounce the digital 2 track on to a 1/2" analog master tape machine, and then back to digital with added warmth and body.You will probably kill me for this, but just 4 years ago I transferred a pallet full of my old tapes to CD, went to the city dump and burned the lot and never looked back..