How do I begin songwriting?

[eddietaxi]

I have always thought that writing a bad idea is just as much work as writing a good one..so, if the idea doesnt knock me out, i don't bother..once i have the 'great idea', i search for a compelling title...sometimes finding the right title makes the idea even better..once the idea and title are in place, i know what kind of song it should be..ballad, uptempo, etc...then i compose the melody..99% of my songs were written this way..writing the melody first forces me to fit my words in, rather than composing a melody over a for example, an 'iambic pentameter' lyriconce the melody is written, i literally write the title on the middle of a page and circle it..then i branch out phrases, words, ideas that relate back to that title..every line ought to support the titlethen, and probably most importantly, i decide on the point of view..is it me talking? to whom? is it me relating a 3rd person narrative? am i sympathetic? am i bitter/bittersweet? etc...and will the listener care..? is it relatable?jeez i just reread all this...guess i didnt know i went through this process everytime...comes sorta natural by now though..loloh, and after i write the lyric, i rewrite it a few times...good luck

[cardell]

I'm the same: I don't even bother writing lyrics unless I have a melody I like first. Stuart

[claire]

I have always thought that writing a bad idea is just as much work as writing a good one..so, if the idea doesnt knock me out, i don't bother..once i have the 'great idea', i search for a compelling title...--------------------Great advice, Eddie - thanks. The idea and the title/hook are not necessarily the same thing. The example we used to hear in songwriting seminars was the song "Something In Red" by Angela Kaset - it's not about a woman trying on clothes...it's about a woman trying to keep her man. The great writers know how to prove the hook indirectly.You said you rewrite the lyric a few times - do you rewrite the melody too?Claire

[eddietaxi]

I sometimes tweak a melody, with 'grace' notes, etc, while i'm fitting in a lyric..but no, once the melody is composed and i'm happy with it, it stays...as far as comparing work with great writers, i never do that..i only compare to my own...i know i can't be the 'best', but i can always be the 'first', which to me is equally important

[billedstrom]

Nov 13, 2009, 9:05am, kevinmathie wrote:Bill:Interesting. So, there is a difference between "hit" songwriting and musical theatre writing? What would you say the biggest difference is? Off the top of my head, I'd assume the major difference would be that musical theatre song writing is designed to serve the plot, and musical theatre songs can't always stand on their own outside of the play. And, I've noticed the form doesn't always seem to be the same as songs on the radio (i.e., musical theatre form often tends to be ABAA or something along that form, rather than verse chorus verse chorus bridge chorus chorus.)Are there other differences I should be on the lookout for? Thanks for the tip on "Lyrics on Several Occasions." I'll check that book out.Many musicals include one or two songs that would probably fall into the hit song form. Musicals often have a wide variety of styles from song to song.Robin Frederick's book is an excellent resource on the hit song form. Some of the characteristics of the current trends in hit song form are:1. Very short intro between 0-15sec2. The structure includes these sections:Verse/Pre-chorus/ChorusVerse/Pre-chorus/ChorusBridge/Chorus3. Verse lines usually don't start on the downbeat4. No long pauses between lines of the song5. Title hook usually appears one or more times in the chorusThere are many variations on this but when Taxi is requesting hit songs they are often looking for songs in this format according to Robin Frederick.

[hummingbird]

Just flying by to say you might start with Robin's book, as advised above. I also strongly recommend a read of Jason Blume's "6 Steps to Songwriting Success".

[Mark Kaufman]

I haven't read the responses, but I will say the process will be a lot different for a musical or song cycle than it will be for any one song.With a single song, I often look for a verbal hook, something that I can say that works sonically with the music. If I can find that one phrase, that's often enough of a seed for growing the entire lyric. This method takes patience and faith...you don't know what it is until it grows up, and then you'll probably rewrite it.If you're writing a set of songs for something like a musical, then you want to map things out beforehand. This song will have this mood and bring the action from here to here...There are two approaches, out of about a million. The best advice I can give someone just starting to write lyrics is A) be patient and trust yourself over time to work up something bigger than you imagined, and B) try to find a nice balance of imagery along with non-image words...keep it economical so it shines more brightly.

[devin]

Nov 15, 2009, 9:15pm, hummingbird wrote:Just flying by to say you might start with Robin's book, as advised above. I also strongly recommend a read of Jason Blume's "6 Steps to Songwriting Success". I second Vikki's recommendation, and also throw in the Luboff's "101 songwriting wrongs and how to right them".The rally REALLY impressed on me how important the melody is. I would think that is universal in every genre. Think of your favorite theatre songs and analyze the melody to try and figure out why it's so memorable.I think no matter what the skill or training someone has, it's then going to come down to practice, practice, practice. Jeffery Steele wrote 40-50 songs a week while developing his craft. There are several places in cyberspace that support songwriters that are immersing themselves for short/long periods of time through challenges, etc. One example is the upcoming "14 Songs in 28 Days" challenge that happens each February (called "FAWM: February Album Writing Month")...a very supportive group that wrote over 7000 collective songs last spring. Vikki was the one that dragged me to my first event, and I've done 3 so far (the theory is, your ratio of "good" to "bad" song ideas stays the same no matter how fast or slow you write...so pick up the pace for a brief stint and see). http://fawm.org/Just don't get upset when your muse starts waking you up* in the middle of your sleep and convinces you to write something down, and you read it 5 hours later and say "WTF?".* oh wait, you'll be used to "sleepus interruptus" soon anyway!! (*evil fellow parent chuckle* )

[kevinmathie]

Wow. Such fantastic advice on this thread! Thank you all so much for your input. I'm not responding to many specific things right now because I'm sort of absorbing it all.Thanks for the tips on which books to buy. Christmas is coming up, and I think I ought to buy myself a present this year, right? And Devin, I sooooo agree with you. Melody is incredibly important in every genre, and theatre is no exception. The other thing I love about theatre is the more involved harmony I can get away with (which thesongcabinet mentioned above), which also influences melody.

[kevinmathie]

Nov 18, 2009, 5:01am, devin wrote:Just don't get upset when your muse starts waking you up* in the middle of your sleep and convinces you to write something down, and you read it 5 hours later and say "WTF?".I've done that so many times with melodies! I'll wake up in the middle of the night, think I have something really brilliant, spend 45 minutes writing it down, go back to bed, sleep for the rest of the night, then get up, play what I spent all that energy on, and say, "What the hell was I thinking last night?!? This is crap!" Quote:* oh wait, you'll be used to "sleepus interruptus" soon anyway!! (*evil fellow parent chuckle* )Ha!! That's funny.