Verse phrasing .. the same .. or a bit different

[watksco]

May 12, 2009, 12:52pm, natehedgeman wrote:All I can say, being a novice to taxi, is this...Since we are asking THEM to screen our songs, not to take their advice would be a mistake. What we personally like or dislike is only relevant (to the commercial side of music) if others like it or dislike it as well. Particularly the screeners and decision makers. Whatever they say is wrong with the song... re-write it. Instead of thinking the problem is with them, maybe the problem is with our music. If you change everything they say to and they still pass on the song... then it's them and whatever problem they have that they aren't telling you. (Which would be pretty jacked up btw) Re-writing the song doesn't hurt anything, you can always go back to the original version anyway.We might think that the way we write is perfect and better and makes more sense then whatever the screeners have to say. So we have a choice.... Do it their way and be rich, Or do it our "perfect better" way and be perfectly broke.Once we have a couple of hits under our belts then we can take a few creative liberties. There it is - nature of the game. When you start in on the ground floor of a new workplace - you give them what they ask for, you work within the culture of the place. Once you've earned the right, you get to have more (and more) of a say. There's no divorcing of 'self' in that, you still bring who you are to the table - unless of course you're sure that you don't like mainstream music - which is what a lot of (most of) the opportunities are for.

[mojobone]

If you intend to write commercial music, you don't break the rules without a durn good reason. Matto's right, this is about meter, not phrasing; artists are allowed to play with phrasing, writers are not permitted to mess with the meter. There's a sound and solid reason for this; repetition is what drives a melody into a listener's psyche. It's just not a good idea to give the listener 'theme and variations' starting in the middle of the first verse-if you wanna let the air out and build up a new head of steam, (to mangle a metaphor) that's what the bridge is for. Verse melodies tend to be weaker than chorus melodies to begin with, why weaken them further by going off-meter?

[ontariolightning]

I love it when people say rock lyrics don't make sense, they obviously don't know a thing they are talking about

[dasvon]

I think a good example of steady phrasing would be Don Schlitz's "The Gambler" which points out a truer guide: In Country music, when it's a true story-teller song, phrasing is essential. "Ode To Bobbie Joe" or Dillon's "Jack of hearts" drives this point home repetitively. Don't lose a good story to off-phrasing. If its a good story, or a funny song, or I wish to be tres-commercial, I'll keep an even-phrasing as much possible.However.........as a novice... I enjoy going off phrasing in songs, but which I would then purposely repeat lines to counter-balance. I call this "arc-ing" Where a line in a verse is repeated in the chorus or another verse. [Repeating lines from chorus to chorus though, I don't call arc-ing, but just ummm...choruses..duh hahaha.]Of course this arcing can simply be the hook line used again in the next verse. It's not a new concept, just my label to emphasize repeating 1,2 or 3 lines in a verse to establish familiarity, yet allowing you to go off-phrasing a bit. I think Kate Bush, Bernie Taupin and others that wrote lyrics first, music second, often got into. Even Sting I think goes offphrasing but the music is so syncopated that you can't tell anyway.Folk songs with the AAAA pattern i hear go off-phrase but tie it off with the hook line at the end of each verse. Or frequently, in AAA songs, the first two lines of chorus are repeated, following 2 lines that may or may not go off-phrasing a bit, but the hook line in the end is back on target.So are there exceptions to the rule, of course. Evident that things are not set in stone.When things are done at their simplest though, rhyme, phrasing, you can get some beautiful songs such as "What a Wonderful World" ,"You Belong to Me" and who could forget "Somewhere over the ..... ummmmm errrrr whatchamacallit"

[dasvon]

Here's a tip to help on phrasing:from Ten Tips For Building Better Songsby Peter & Pat Luboff Interior design: balance and contrasts.When writing lyrics, consider changing phrasing patterns from section to section. This will permit the music writer to create more interesting melodies. Once you have established a pattern, match it each time that section comes around so that strong melodic moments can be repeated.