For the country writers:

[squids]

Well, I've got two friends, one's a DJ, the other's a music supe at 2 different radio stations both owned by ClearChannel. Both say it doesn't matta what the heck the public calls them, they play what they're told to play. In the old days, it was different, but these are the days of corporate radio and suits rule music. Advertising dollars talk but honestly, the public's gonna listen to a station that mostly caters to what they want and most of the public doesn't bother to call in and complain. They surf instead. And keep hittin' that same station again and again while they do it, enough to keep the ad men comin' around.Can you keep a good song down? For heaven's sake, yes you can. There're maybe what? 2% max of the entire country's population that are musicians. Of those, I'll be generous and say maybe .5% are extremely good at what they do. We can include songwriters in here as well. Of those, how many do you think have access to big name artists who can cut their songs? How many have the drive to keep pounding away at the glass door day after day, year after year? How many artists do you think can afford to tell their label to get f*$ked (paraphrasing you) and run off with enough fans to keep their heads above water?What it takes is enough power at the beginning to have enough at the end. Toby had enough to do what he wanted. There're enough examples of that all over music: Mariah Carey, Radiohead, shall I go on? Enough money = freedom to do what you want.It takes perserverance, drive, focus, talent, a huge capacity to learn and to compromise and still stay humble enough to learn some more, a ton of other things to make it in this field. If you're missing enough of those things, it's gonna be very difficult to get your stuff out there. That doesn't even include social skills that will help you find the contacts you need and keep them. Absolutely you can keep a good song down.Enough hair splittin'. Now my head's splittin. I respect your opinion but I think it might be a bit optimistic.

[mojobone]

Nov 21, 2008, 8:16pm, squids wrote:Well, I've got two friends, one's a DJ, the other's a music supe at 2 different radio stations both owned by ClearChannel. Both say it doesn't matta what the heck the public calls them, they play what they're told to play. In the old days, it was different, but these are the days of corporate radio and suits rule music. Advertising dollars talk but honestly, the public's gonna listen to a station that mostly caters to what they want and most of the public doesn't bother to call in and complain. They surf instead. And keep hittin' that same station again and again while they do it, enough to keep the ad men comin' around.Can you keep a good song down? For heaven's sake, yes you can. There're maybe what? 2% max of the entire country's population that are musicians. Of those, I'll be generous and say maybe .5% are extremely good at what they do. We can include songwriters in here as well. Of those, how many do you think have access to big name artists who can cut their songs? How many have the drive to keep pounding away at the glass door day after day, year after year? How many artists do you think can afford to tell their label to get f*$ked (paraphrasing you) and run off with enough fans to keep their heads above water?What it takes is enough power at the beginning to have enough at the end. Toby had enough to do what he wanted. There're enough examples of that all over music: Mariah Carey, Radiohead, shall I go on? Enough money = freedom to do what you want.It takes perserverance, drive, focus, talent, a huge capacity to learn and to compromise and still stay humble enough to learn some more, a ton of other things to make it in this field. If you're missing enough of those things, it's gonna be very difficult to get your stuff out there. That doesn't even include social skills that will help you find the contacts you need and keep them. Absolutely you can keep a good song down.Enough hair splittin'. Now my head's splittin. I respect your opinion but I think it might be a bit optimistic. I believe squiddy knows whereof she speaks, but also that Clear Channel's days are numbered; the technology for a radio station to know with absolute certainty how many listeners are tuned in, for how long and where they are on the planet has already arrived, and the voice of those listeners will be heard. It's a new day. Carpe diem.

[squids]

Achy breaky heart. Oh, boy. There're days ya jes gotta wonder, ya know? It's foot tappin' happiness alright. I can't help but wince when I hear the lyrics.

[matthoggard]

I miss the mullet!

[claire]

No lyrics, no song.You're right

[claire]

It's all about the music.Doc Haley----------------------------------Now wait just a second there, Doc - I thought you said it was all about the lyrics...(just pullin' your leg)

[cameron]

Nov 22, 2008, 5:26pm, claire wrote:No lyrics, no song.You're right Hey... keep me out of this!

[squids]

I think both developed around the same time, myself. It was only until composers evolved that things got sticky. Heh.

[squids]

Nov 24, 2008, 11:36am, twilsbach wrote:De Do Do DoDe Da Da DaIs all I've got to say to you.

[squids]

Well, doc, so far you've said that workin' hard in music is the equivalent of workin' hard in life and should equal the same success. Not very realistic. You've also made claims about radio that aren't realistic either and now what 'should' apply to a song. You can do some homework and google this stuff (I strongly suggest that if you want folks to keep responding) but here's a small bit of education (last one fo free! Charges incoming! ):An acapella song is still a song. Voices are not considered instruments by musicians at large, no matta how many times singers (especially good ones) bitch about it. Instruments (barring cool new synths) cannot use a verbal language to express themselves so it was decided that vocalists would define whether something was a song. Also, it was an insult from instrumentalists to vocalists, but that was almost 1500 years ago so we're over it now. A classic example: Bobby McFerrin's acapella albums. No one considers them compositions. They're songs. Why? Even though he doesn't use words anyone understands, he's scatting a majority of the time (You know what that is, I'm assuming), it's precisely because his voice is now uttering syllables, vowels, consonants, that defines it as a song. And it won't matter how much time you spend on this subject, these things aren't going to change. Aren't there bigger, more important issues than arguing (or trying to win arguments) about how things should be, rather than workin' hard with what is? Maybe writin' or gettin' an education online about music history would be a betta focus of your energy. I amended this post. Good thing.