what's most important for a film-tv song?

[deantaylor]

This is regarding songs WITH VOCALS only .. What characteristic is most important to get placements in film-tv? List them in order. Most important at the top. Add characteristics if I forgot any. Here is my current thinking. I am sure others know better.performancemoodemotion(general) lyric that applies to many scenes a strong alasectional differenceenergyThanks,Dean

[Casey H]

Nov 19, 2008, 11:44pm, deantaylor wrote:This is regarding songs WITH VOCALS only .. What characteristic is most important to get placements in film-tv? List them in order. Most important at the top. Add characteristics if I forgot any. Here is my current thinking. I am sure others know better.performancemoodemotion(general) lyric that applies to many scenes a strong alasectional differenceenergyThanks,DeanHi DeanYou've pretty much answered your own question with this list, though the first 3-4 are pretty equal in priority. It all has to be there, so differentiating their importance isn't really useful. Bad performance and no one cares about the mood, for example... Exceptions-- if the request is for an offbeat or specific subject song (general lyrics don't apply) or if the a la is someone like Dylan where sounding like him takes a higher priority than being always on key since he wasn't anyway.It is interesting that you posted this. I'm in the middle of a lengthy discussion with a board friend regarding film/TV music. He quoted an article from someone who writes about film music where the author advised to have your own unique style. For most of us unknowns, I disagree with that. (Talking songs here, not work-for-hire or orchestral which I don't know enough about)... It's true for artists trying to break out. For songwriters like us, I strongly believe that you have a much better chance with imitation. A song that sounds like a particular artist or authentic to a time period probably has the best chance, IMHO. In fact, I am re-working some songs in my catalog for that reason. I'm of the belief that for film/TV, imitation is VERY important. (Did you ever see a taxi film/TV listing asking for a completely unique sound?)Sectional difference is important because I have found that film/TV folks, even thought they may only use 30 seconds of your song at 2:30, still listen for GOOD SONGS. The choruses don't have to be as amazing as for a Nashville publisher (very good is fine, great not required IMHO), but it the hook doesn't grab them in a minute or so, you probably won't get anywhere. An exception would be if there is something else about it that grabs them very strongly from the get-go for another reason. Energy... the level of energy has to match the request... Often very important for sports, chase scenes, etc.. where very high energy is needed... And obviously the opposite, sad scenes don't get hard driving metal rock... Casey

[twilsbach]

Interesting thread. Casey I'm interested in the discussion you're having especially. Allow me to but in Assuming a broadcast quality recording, I'd say Mood and Performance are the biggest things to nail.When it comes to uniqueness vs. imitation I think there is a place for both. Certainly if you're flying under the radar and simply trying to get placements imitation is a good way to go and there are opportunities for that.But I also think there are plenty of opportunities for unique-sounding songs, especially if you're trying to develop yourself as an artist. Ingrid Michaelson, & Joe Purdy come to mind as specifics examples of people whos careers were helped quite a lot by film/tv placements. Songs like Amos Lee's Sweet Pea from an AT&T commercial, anything from an ipod or iPhone commercial, all examples of unique sounds that help compellingly (is that a word?) sell a product or scene.This might be just my Pollyanna view of it, or more likely biased by what I'm trying to do with my artist career, but I would guess that in general the $$$ you'd get from a high-profile placement in a network show or national commercial would be more than a background placement that helps create or maintain the mood in a scene in a movie or tv show.Thats just, like...my...opinion, man.

[Casey H]

Nov 20, 2008, 9:31am, twilsbach wrote:Interesting thread. But I also think there are plenty of opportunities for unique-sounding songs, especially if you're trying to develop yourself as an artist. Absolutely true. I mentioned in my post that there is a difference between emerging artists here and pure songwriters like Dean and I. For emerging artists, unique is very important. But take a non-performer (like me) who goes to studios to have songs produced. In that mode of operation, I think imitation is more effective most of the time. Also, there is no question that if you create a definite mood with a song, that can take a lot of precedence. So I may have over-emphasized imitation because that's my own focus-- I'm taking that direction because of what I've been observing.I have a song signed to a library that doesn't have a strong artist sound-like or era strongly associated with it. It works because it's an excellent (if I must say so myself, LOL) mood setter.Bear in mind that libraries, the source of a big percentage of placements, need to tag and categorize songs in order to make their searchable database. So even if a song might really work, it might be harder to find because it's harder to 'tag'. That creates a practical reality outside of the music itself.Back to basics... Very good (at least) songs, very good performances, very good engineering and production come first... Lyrics with general themes very important... Casey

[Casey H]

Nov 20, 2008, 8:06am, deantaylor wrote:So a related question may be: what are the most frequent intended uses. Are there more uses where films are looking for tracks that sound like famous artists or are there more uses where they want music that fits a mood and a lyrical idea? Not sure.I don't think that's an answerable question. It varies all over the place... Over-analysis can kill us too. Pick one of the possible directions that works for a reasonable number of applications--- mood, era, a la, whatever... based a lot on what you do best or want to learn do to well. CaseyPS I want to stress again that MY perspective is that of a non-performer who uses outside studios.

[Casey H]

All good points... Bill, Nita, et al...One thing is you can't always judge by a few rejections. Sometimes it's just the right track at the right time and you need to keep plugging it in all ways (assuming it has no bad boogers)... A few screener returns may or may not mean anything. (Though at some point you're just banging your head against the wall). My guess would be if you create a track as a sound-like, especially if it's a retro thing, that's pretty much the only target for it. It is what it is.Nita, I see you as more of an artist... So I don't think going into the studio to purposely make a track that sounds like some other artist would be necessarily for you. I see a lot of this discussion as for pure songwriters or for singer-songwriters who've decided to heavily target film/TV with a lot of tracks and also do quick-turns like dispatch. Casey

[squids]

Nov 20, 2008, 3:44pm, hurowitz wrote:All good points... Bill, Nita, et al...One thing is you can't always judge by a few rejections. Sometimes it's just the right track at the right time and you need to keep plugging it in all ways (assuming it has no bad boogers)... A few screener returns may or may not mean anything. (Though at some point you're just banging your head against the wall). My guess would be if you create a track as a sound-like, especially if it's a retro thing, that's pretty much the only target for it. It is what it is.Nita, I see you as more of an artist... So I don't think going into the studio to purposely make a track that sounds like some other artist would be necessarily for you. I see a lot of this discussion as for pure songwriters or for singer-songwriters who've decided to heavily target film/TV with a lot of tracks and also do quick-turns like dispatch. CaseyI agree about the right time with the right track but not the artist thing.....I don't do jes singer-songwriter stuff, I do instrumentals as well and most of mine are heavily targeted to film-tv, jes not period stuff. It's jes a matta of taste is all.

[squids]

Nov 20, 2008, 3:10pm, billg wrote:"Bill G and I have the same problem "Nita, I don't even deserve to have my voice in the same sentence with yours.Shyeah. That's why I dream of havin' your voice. Also, it would be exceptionally cool if I could steal yo bass playin' and harp stuff too. So I guess I dream of bein' you all ova. Only maybe with mo time left and a huge -azz contract. Also, I would be taller and that's gotta feel good too.

[squids]

Nov 20, 2008, 6:15pm, hummingbird wrote:here are some additional thoughts from the rally - they apply to instrumentals but I think you can apply them to songs as well....- don't change keys, or tempo- set a mood & stick with it- generic lyrics that create an atmosphere work well- no long intros or breaks- always have the backing track ready to pass along- the song should be well mixed, well played, and well sungHTHNo key changes? Interesting. I guess I can see why. Nothin' too obtrusive, right? The other stuff I knew but not that. I don't do key changes but that's a good thing ta know in case I'd forget myself.Thank you!

[Casey H]

Nov 20, 2008, 11:24pm, squids wrote:Nov 20, 2008, 3:44pm, hurowitz wrote:All good points... Bill, Nita, et al...One thing is you can't always judge by a few rejections. Sometimes it's just the right track at the right time and you need to keep plugging it in all ways (assuming it has no bad boogers)... A few screener returns may or may not mean anything. (Though at some point you're just banging your head against the wall). My guess would be if you create a track as a sound-like, especially if it's a retro thing, that's pretty much the only target for it. It is what it is.Nita, I see you as more of an artist... So I don't think going into the studio to purposely make a track that sounds like some other artist would be necessarily for you. I see a lot of this discussion as for pure songwriters or for singer-songwriters who've decided to heavily target film/TV with a lot of tracks and also do quick-turns like dispatch. CaseyI agree about the right time with the right track but not the artist thing.....I don't do jes singer-songwriter stuff, I do instrumentals as well and most of mine are heavily targeted to film-tv, jes not period stuff. It's jes a matta of taste is all. SquidsyApologies... I forgot you do instrumentals for film/TV... All I have in my head is your lovely voice... Been talking songs here... Although much of the same applies, there is more leeway with instrumentals. I would venture a guess that, although a la's are called for all the time and sound-likes are often needed, mood, tempo, etc. (though always very important) would rise up the chain here.Note that we are splitting hairs... When you ask, "which is most important?", the answer really is, "they all are". It might be better to list things to avoid if writing for film/TV-- I can give you a host of things I would have done differently in my own tunes...Some of my mistakes:* Too specific lyrics* Songs/tracks with influences but not easily reconizable as a sound-like or specific era. * Change-up in the bridge that changes the basic character of the song.* Fade out... not always critical, but given the choice I would have done hard endings.Good points, Vikki.... Consistency is a good thing... One tempo, basically the same musical style throughout, etc.Button endings seem to be preferred to fade-outs. Matto's been busy... or else I'm sure he would chime in... Casey