Which SONG STRUCTURE do you like best

[deantaylor]

We have a song that has this structure:intro - 6sverse1 - 20sverse2 - 20s *** if we remove v3, we'd re-write v2, assume the storyline is unaffectedprechor1 - 5schorus1 - 20sverse3 - 20s *** musically would it be better if we removed this verse?verse4 - 20sprechor2 - 5schorus2 - 20sbridge - 20sprechor3 - 8schorus3 - 20schorus4 - 20s---------------with transitions it runs 3:37 (remove v3 and it runs 3:15)We are thinking of removing verse3, so we'd get to chorus2 at about 1:40, instead of 2:03. Assuming the storyline is just as 'good' will it be better musically this way? Is it 'enough' to have just one 20s verse between ch1 and pc2?Thanks for sharing your opinion,Dean------------------------------------------------------------If you want, you can listen to the 4-verse draft here:http://www.taximusic.com/song.php?song_ ... -----YOUNG DAYS© 2008 by Matthew Stevens & Dean Brantley TaylorLyrics by Dean Brantley Taylor (ASCAP) www.mp3unsigned.com/DeanTaylor.asp www.LetsTalkMusic.com/DeanTaylor Music by Matthew Stevens (BMI)http://keystevens.googlepages.com Vocals by Tim Wilsbach

[lopc]

Depends. Not knowing the lyric, I can only guess.Will losing v3 impact the overall story or disrupt the flow of the piece? I assume you guys feel they are depensible or you wouldn't consider this deletion.The flow could be disrupted with the loss of definitive melody. Maybe not.51secs to 1st chorus is acceptable (if my math is right). I've heard that generally listeners like the hook at about 45secs.I think working a tune in at 3:37 is justified in many instances. 3:15 has a better shot at radio play if that is your intent.Either way, it would be nice to have a look or a listen to better reply.

[Casey H]

Hi DeanIt's always hard to answer these questions without hearing a song. In general, 4 verses in a chorus-driven song with a bridge would not be recommended for most popular music. In fact, when there is a bridge, only 2 verses is more standard.BUT, I can say a lot of things here that don't really matter without a listen. For most pitches what matters most is if you grabbed them in that first minute and the chorus is a killer. If a publisher is still listening by V3, V4 may not be a deal-breaker. However, why risk it? ...and some publishers will look at the lyric sheet first and if your structure is non-standard, they won't listen.As you know what's usually expected format-wise is:V pC V pC V pCorV pC V pC B [p]Cwith the little p being the pre-chorus. Obviously short instrumental breaks might be in there somewhere (short!) and there could be a repeat chorus or outro at the end.HTHCan we listen?Best,Casey

[deantaylor]

Thanks Casey, lopc,We would remove v2. Rewrite v3 a little bit and move it up into the v2 position. The 'story' will not be impacted, imo. You can listen here:http://www.taximusic.com/song.php?song_ ... tream=true Dean

[sgs4u]

Hey Dean, I listened.There's a lot of high end in the mix, especially on the drums. The melody in the verses is a bit low for the singer to sink his teeth into. Even tho he is fabulously bald and charming.I would suggest that you could drop vs 3 or 4. I think your first chorus could be shorter too. Maybe you could end that 1st chorus at the half way point. You could go vs 3, then to straight your bridge. It really depends if your lyrics contain stuff crucial to the meaning and purpose of the song. The song being 3:45 or 3:15 isn't all that big an issue, either. What's more important is the development of the song's intent. Even tho you're asking for advice, you are actually in the best position to decide what to chop or include. Listening or even worse, trying these suggestions, could get you pulled over by the song writing police.

[deantaylor]

Steve,Thanks for the input. It helps. We are already moving the song up one full step in pitch so Tim (Wilsbach .. our fab vocalist) can sink more teeth into the verses. And Matt is adding in a synth background faint pad and another subtle guitar in v3 and v4 to give them a little different feel from v1 and v2. We think this may be 'enough' (and really, we think it is working pretty good already), but we are still considering cutting the verse, too. Trying to make it the best it can be.Your idea for chopping out parts of verses is interesting. I considered it briefly, maybe I should revist. But that has more impact musically, so .... it would affect production more.Dean

[Casey H]

Hi DeanI think you have a good song here. One thing that makes it harder to judge is with this recording, the words other than the chorus are hard to make out. The vocal is a bit muffled and/or there are some enunciation issues. I know this isn't your final demo, but a clear vocal that shows the lyrics is essential. I remember an earlier demo. This has come a long way!! Good technique with the change up in the bridge... The use of the shorter "stab" notes in contrast with the longer notes in the chorus works well. Good luck!Casey

[Mark Kaufman]

Hi Dean!I listened to your song after reading your initial question...I didn't listen too closely to the lyrics, just the feel of the song and the structure.Here's my 2 cents: on the second round of verses, yes, just do one. This song really wants to bust into the chorus (a very nice one, by the way!), and that's what lingers in my memory right now...young days...the verses are good, but not as sticky in the memory as the chorus. By the end of the 3rd verse, I'd hit the chorus again...the 4th verse loses interest structurally on this one.Cool song! You need a TV series for this one...retire on one theme song! Sort of a Harry Nilsson "Courtship of Eddie's Father" vibe...like it a lot. Good Luck! -mk

[deantaylor]

Thanks Everyone so far.Steve and Mark vote for removing verse 3 (or 4 .. same thing). No one yet has voted to keep all 4 verses. We understand what Mark is saying here. Do you feel the same way????""on the second round of verses, yes, just do one. This song really wants to bust into the chorus ... the 4th verse loses interest structurally on this one"Everyone else, do what Mark did, just listen to the feel of the song and the structure, you don't need to listen to the words. I am telling you to ASSUME THAT THE LYRICS WILL WORK JUST AS WELL EITHER WAY. So, just tell us which structure you like best for this song, A or B:A - vvcvvcbc (this is the current structure)B - vvcvcbc (this is the change we are considering)............................ ....................For simplicity, I didn't list the prechorus sections.Thanks,Dean

[gongchime]

I didn't hear the tune but a double verse is often suicide before the first chorus. The execs might not wait that long. If you can first do only one verse before the first chorus, it's always better in my opinion. But songs have their own lives and we can't always contort them to fit the form which those who are already established can cut into ribbons. Get to the first chorus quickly is my guideline until then.