New Country Category

[horacejesse]

I was wondering if Taxi needs a new category in country, something to potentially open it up a tad. Country is traditionally very conservative whereas rock has made its living being different and breaking new ground. Breaking ground is the tradition in rock. Though country switched sounds, they are now as conservative in the new sound as they were in the old one. That is why I would propose that a new category should be a country category.We are asked to write within a certain box. When you see: CONTEMPORARY COUNTRY SONGS WITH NEO-TRADITIONAL LEANINGS a la Brad Paisley, Alan Jackson......and all the rest of what it says, they have given you the dimensions of the box and some of its characteristics, maybe its color and texture and some other details.If you look at the country boxes, they really are not much different from each other, there is little variety. But in other categories great variety abounds. Libraries are seeking every kind of instrumental, from mini cathedrals to intricately carven Byzantine birdhouses.You can't blame Taxi that there are just plain old square and rectangular boxes wanted over in the country listings, painted prettily. They don't even write the listings, they just tell you the dimensions that were quoted to them.Because a business like Taxi functions as a reflection of the industry it serves value-wise, it is vulnerable to the same oversights and mistakes. Because the industry seems to usually pass numerous times on songs from unknowns that eventually become big hits, one could assume that Taxi misses opportunities too. Who would assume that Taxi never misses an opportunity?The stylistic narrowness of the country listings, and Taxi's own strictures, make it nearly certain to me that potential hits are being screened out, if they have one, two or three paws out of the box. Some of those songs might have captivated the Nashville party, but they will not be heard just because they had some paws out of the box.I also see it as a kind of substitute for a Nashville rally. It would be another way for Taxi to exercise the relationships in Nashville that Michael says are strong and healthy. It should not put a strain on a healthy relationship to speak thus: "We receive some things that are very interesting and of high quality that do not easily fit into any of the country categories that we normally use. Would it be OK if we ran an automatic quarterly listing for you the way we do for some libraries, in this THREE PAWS OUT OF THE BOX category, which is yet country? We certainly do not see it as any kind of license for mediocrity, in fact quite the opposite. We will only be sending you the very best, as usual, but it will be different from what you are used to getting from us...."Or words to that effect.If any success came of this category and automatic listing, then of course all of the country producers and publishers would want their own too, since it will not do to give the competition a free leg up.I realize the singer-songwriter category is an attempt at another sized net, but I feel it does not often catch the fish I am talking about. I only occasionally see something there that would qualify.Of course if Taxi does not feel they regualrly receive material of this kind, and feels that they never miss opportunities in this direction, they will not take this proposal seriously.I just think it is logical that they do make mistakes and overlooks, and I think the country fringes is the place to look, the gateway being so narrow.

[arthurjames]

Hi HJ-AJ here, reading and agreeing with some of what you've laid out, while also wanting to add my .02. While I doubt anyone thinks Taxi never misses an opportunity, I gotta believe that a truly great song stands out from the pack and is rarely missed, no matter the genre and even if it's not directly on target for that particular listing. It seems to me that Taxi screeners are generally not only subjective critics but also lovers of music and would jump at the chance to pass something great along however they could. Of course everyone has off days and mistakes are made, but I gotta believe a truly great song will find a home, even if it's not a traditional Nashville formula. Speaking specifically to out of the box country, there's a large and fairly lucrative Alt. Country/Americana scene that seems pretty wide open, and Taxi has some listings for these type of songs (when Wilco is an ala, that's definitley a paw or two out of the Nashville box!).But here's the rub. What makes a song great? IMO it's got to reach people, touch them, move them somehow. And not just a few people, lots of 'em! While there's no clearcut formula for how to do this, I believe there are folks who have enough knowledge, experience and sensitivity to pretty much know a great song when they hear it, and I have faith that any song with this kind of potential would have a hard time getting by more than 1 or 2 screeners before it is recognized and given every opportunity at Taxi's disposal in order to find it a wider audience. Do I think the screeners or Taxi do this perfectly? No.But my guess is they are probably the best resource available for unknown writers and artists.Cheers Arthur

[horacejesse]

Hey, Arthur,Thanks for the thoughtful response.Quote:While I doubt anyone thinks Taxi never misses an opportunity, I gotta believe that a truly great song stands out from the pack and is rarely missed, no matter the genre and even if it's not directly on target for that particular listing.The problem starts with "truly great." Just what is that? You will not find one song that you can get everyone even on this small forum to admit is "truly great," so the term is effectively a misnomer.Do I think Taxi is going to ovelook "I Will Always Love You," with a singer half as good as Whitney? No way. But you and I will not miss that one either.Quote:But my guess is they [TAXI]are probably the best resource available for unknown writers and artists.They are the best resource, far and away IMO. If I didn't believe that, you would not find me here.What you have to realize is that my argument for this new category is a quasi-statistical one. You might call it intuitional statistics.Here are a couple of things that I know for sure:1. The industry in general characteristically passes multiple times on future hits by unknowns before the song is eventually picked up by someone. 2. Taxi screeners are the industry. They are hired out of the industry, which is where their values in this area come from. Most of them are still emplyed elsewhere in the industry while they work for Taxi. When someone else rejects your song, Taxi screeners have rejected it, or people just like them with nearly identical values. And if they can do it outside of Taxi, they can do it inside.3. About three songs per year might be categorized as "truly great." To say that Taxi can almost always recognize one of these does not do much for my peace of mind. Very few #1 songs even can really be called art or "truly great."4. Record companies, producers, publishers et al, are searching just as intensely for the next big hit song as Taxi is. Taxi has no lock on wanting to find the next hit. It means just as much to those others as it does to Taxi, yet these people and institutions are constantly overlooking the next hit.Can Taxi screeners nearly always recognize a hit that may not be by consensus a "truly great song," but is a damned good one and will be a hit later on down the line? Well, Arthur, if they can, they can do what no one else on earth's surface can do. There is not anyone with a formula for hits. Mega producers bank wads of their own money sometimes on a song they know has to make it. They get the best artist available to record it, they have powerhouse support behind them, then the song bombs anyway. This even happened to Diane Warren. Nobody has the kind of capability you are describing IMO. If some people did, they would be zillionaires and there would be no need for organizations like Taxi.Then I ask myself, "Where is there most likely to be a bottleneck in the Taxi organization?" Obviously, this would be in country, which is the most conservative genre by my reckoning. This great big bottle has a little tiny neck on it.If Taxi was as good as I want them to be, and as good as I think maybe they can be, they would have more major hits under their belt than two. I don't mean they'd have fifty, I mean maybe they'd have four or five. That's how tough and competitive this business is. Do I think they are doing poorly? Not at all. Two major hits is actually incredible, but it is not as good as four or five. Just to be clear though: If all members did as Taxi tries to educate them to do, Taxi probably would have fifty major hits. As a group of twelve thousand, we do really poorly in adhering to Taxi's guidlines and taking action on their excellent advice.If members do what they are supposed to, then Taxi is still the best in the world. I believe that with everything I've got. And what is a Taxi member supposed to do? They are supposed to study the blueprint hard and then go to work building the structure asked for. When we do that, Taxi's percentage is very high. That is what they are experts at, feeding the industry what it asks for and recognizing when they have it.Any wise Taxi member is going to try and update their sound to become "stylistically consistentent with today's trends." Every member should make their main effort that of trying to hit the target Taxi provides. I do not recommend that people stay stubborn and continue to write primarily out of the box. That is what I call Taxi suicide. But the fact remains that even the most disciplined songwriters will stray out of the box from time to time, and we all have old stuff we still believe in and do not want to throw away or give up on that would be hard to fit into any of the known country boxes.Taxi may not miss as much as the industry in general, but then again they may miss exactly as much. Statistically and logically, I am convinced they miss plenty, not becuse they are bad or careless, but because that's the way the business works even when people are killing themselves to find the big hit.That is why I can't just forget about this. I see what I think is a reasonable area for them to improve in, and no time soon do I plan to go lie down with my paws over my head. In the words of the governator, "I'll be back."

[hummingbird]

I don't know... out of 10,000 songwriters (or so), only 2 have had a big hit song. Odds sound about right to me. That doesn't mean that only 2 people got a song cut, though. It just means that 2 out of all the cuts by Taxi members in the past 10 years made it big. Again, odds sound about right to me.Because a hit song isn't just about the song. It's about the artist, the label, the payola, the marketing. Taxi can forward potential hit songs but it's not the song itself that makes it a hit. It's all the money and effort put behind it, to sell it / the artist to the public.Let's say, you get a country song forwarded by Taxi. Great. And they call. And, out of the 1,200 songs put on hold for 1 to 2 years (during which you cannot pitch it elsewhere), you're lucky enough to get on the short list of 100. They go into studio, cut 20 or 25 of those 100. You're lucky enough to be one of those 25. Then they choose the 15 songs for the album. You're lucky enough to be one of those 15. Meanwhile 3 years have gone by. They release a single. You wait to see if they will release the album. Perhaps they don't. 3 years of your life down the drain, waiting for your hit song to hit the air waves. But let's say they do release the album. And then the album doesn't get up to the top 10 on the country charts within the first week. And no one hears about your hit song on the album because the label pulls its backing. In reality, I think the statistical likelihood of any of us having a hit song (particularly a hit country song) is about as likely as driving a car to the moon. But that doesn't stop us from trying.H'bird

[arthurjames]

Hey Jesse,You've got some good points and have obviously been around the industry more than me, I'm still pretty new to the business side of music. I can almost see the benefit of running a listing along the lines your suggesting, but still gotta wonder what might get forwarded there that wouldn't under a regular listing.You've probly read the "Nashville Rally" thread and ML's response (it's on page 3). Sounds to me like if a screener is really moved by a song they can in turn get the Taxi machine moving in order to find a place for it, listing or no. Seems this ability to move people is still the only real indicator of this "greatness" which is so hard to pin down. I agree it's hard to apply this term to art. Certainly that could be a thread (book? PBS series? PhD dissertation?) unto itself with multiple examples of popular junk and unknown masterpieces.Anyway,whether it's pop, rap, r&b or country, IMO the song has to have that element of moving the listener, who in this case is a screener. When the screener is moved they pass it through to the next level. In fact, out of all the genres Taxi has listings for country might be where the least gets overlooked because it's not so dependent on production to get the song across. Y'know "3 chords and the truth". Just a thought, no idea if it's accurate Now I'll close with a very inexperienced opinion which in no way detracts fron the awesome work that all of us writing for the high bar country listings (I'm still working on getting my stuff up for review) are doing and need to keep doing until we start to crack this nut and GET those 50 cuts: If the "great" stuff is out there, I haven't heard it. Which could mean it's not posted on this forum (I've gone back through most of the Forwards and Peer to Peer) or I just don't have my ears tuned to it and I'm missing the hits just like the industry does.It could also mean we here at Taxi are not yet writing many country songs that have moved a screener enough to get forwarded, an artist and/or producer enough to get a cut then an audience enough to get a hit. Of course I'm just talking artistry here, H'bird covered some of the other terrain a hit must pass through, none of it smooth, to say the least!So........I dunno. In summary, I guess I believe that hit songs have to have semi-universal appeal, and a song that has that in spades enough to become an outside cut in Nashville will be recognized even if it's outside the box. BTW, do you have some specific songs your thinking of? Maybe you could put them up for review and see what your fellow Taxi riders think. I'm hoping to get some of my first songs on Peer to Peer next week.Cool topic, thanks for startin' it up! Arthur

[hummingbird]

Jimi's telling it like it is over on her site....http://www.jimiheath.com/articles.htmin particular - http://www.jimiheath.com/art2.htm

[horacejesse]

Not a shred of disrespect intended, Arthur, but I do think you are dreaming about this universal appeal. I believe I can take 35 songs out out of the top 40 at any one time, ask various people on the street what they think of this or that song, and get a whole range of responses from great to OK to lousy. And there is your universal appeal. As I said before, almost every song by an unknown writer that eventually becomes a hit is passed on numerous times before someone finally gives it a chance. Does that sound like universal appeal to you? Can you address this argument specifically?Then why are they hits, you ask? A whole list of reasons, and appeal is just one of those, and I do not believe there is anything universal about it. For the other five songs, there may be a near universal appeal. Another thing is, I already stated that we are not talking about those five hit songs, but the other thirty-five or thirty-eight or whatever the actual number is.Not trying to be argumentative here, but the truth is I am convinced of my own theory until or unless someone or something unconvinces me.Actually, I have not been around the music industry a whit more than the normal Taxi member, Arthur. I am green. I did receive some very special treatment from Taxi, which you can read about over in the Taxiland Trip threads.Quote:BTW, do you have some specific songs your thinking of? Maybe you could put them up for review and see what your fellow Taxi riders think. I'm hoping to get some of my first songs on Peer to Peer next week.And if I post something and the members come on and say I'm crazy, then that is the end of the thread and the idea. I cannot let the vaule of the idea be tied to my own work. Though this thread has everything to do with me, it has nothing to do with me. If the idea has no merit outside my own work then it has no merit, period.Again, thanks for replying thoughtfully, and the same to my lady Bird.But I still want to know why, if a song has such universal appeal, it is normally rejected so many times before being signed?

[andreh]

Hi Horace-I agree that some marketable, but left-of-the-listing, songs are probably being returned by Taxi (just as they're sometimes overlooked by other industry folks), but I'm not sure it's Taxi's place to do anything about what a client wants to receive when they post a listing. Do you think you, I, or Michael Laskow know what's best for a client better than the client does? Well, maybe we do...but is it our place to tell them that? Plus, if Taxi were to start "suggesting" to clients that they be more open-minded about what material should be forwarded to them, why limit the concept to country listings? It's a slippery slope.I think the problem you're describing is real, but I don't think there's a viable solution through Taxi...it's just not how their business model works. I do believe Taxi provides real opportunities for "inside the box" songs, but perhaps finding an alternative way of marketing one's undeniable hit songs that are not-quite-mainstream deserves some consideration.André

[arthurjames]

There's lots of good questions here I sure don't have the answers to, but it's been a good thread so far In the end, I think Andre may have the most balanced view so far: it's an issue within the industry that uses Taxi, but not something they can change.Personally, I'm coming from musical experience only. I've had almost almost zero personal contact with the industry. My views may seem romantic, naive or even foolish to some, but I still believe the appeal and value of music is how it moves people emotionally. I'm aware that the industry has devised many ways to simulate, manipulate or otherwise falsely create that movement (and turn it into massive sales) through production, marketing etc., almost to the point where "talent" seems like a manufactured commodity. I'm a hold out. I believe you gotta move people first, whether it be an arena, a coffeehouse, a screener or a producer.I have little or no interest in any of those devices unless they are employed in the service of a song or performance that can be stripped to it's essentials musically and emotionally yet still move people. Country gets this type of treatment more often, but I think the same can be applied to most genres; Mary J. Blige, Eminem, Tool.....even Nickelback! There's lots of stuff out there I can imagine being effective in this format. There's also lots more that I wonder "whose buying this crap?"But I don't waste much energy wondering, I'm more interested in studying the stuff that moves me and seeing how they did it, then applying that. Ditto on the no disrespect Jesse, I'm just laying out what to me is the fundamental reason I choose to do music at all when it often seems like it would be easier to suck up to a corporation or go live in the woods on roots and berries Again, thanks for starting this threadArthur

[horacejesse]

Quote:I'm just laying out what to me is the fundamental reason I choose to do music at all when it often seems like it would be easier to suck up to a corporation or go live in the woods on roots and berries Hey, I'm coming to your house for dinner. Just don't forget the boiled tubers, OK? They are one of my favorites.And Andre, thanks for excellent input. But if you go back and read my suggested pitch from Michael to the Nashville execs, you will see it does not suggest that they become more open minded, criticize their values or present system. All it does is ask if they would mind having an automatic quarterly listing run for them, for music that is good, but farther left or right than they normally receive or ask for. This does not seem to me like anything that would jeopardize current relationships. Of course maybe I am wrong on that. Michael is the one who knows these people. I don't know them at all.