Bob Dylan

[Mark Kaufman]

Quote:...Completely blowing the image of a crafty writer, who polishes his lyrics, endlessly... I'm not sure that he ever did fit that description. These days everyone likes to use the term "A.D.D." for anyone who is busy, distracted, random...but I think the same bad use of that term would fit Dylan. I think he always worked fast and spat it out ASAP, rather than agonizing over anything. It's just that what he spat out was often sublime. Apparently he still prefers to work with immediacy. That takes a lot of talent, balls and confidence.Then, in performances, he will completely rewrite songs...not necessarily "polishing" the lyrics...just disregarding the old ones. Quite the unusual guy.I agree somewhat about his "image manipulation"...keeping things mysterious and even contradictory...but I also think Tom Petty has a point when he tells us we "don't know how it feels" to be them, to be a huge celebrity. I think the experience of world fame is unexplainable to people who don't have it. It's non-stop, intrusive and psychologically lethal...sometimes stars need to use it for business purposes, but most of the time I would think they would be doing everything in their power to be left alone.I got the Traveling Wilburys collection for Christmas and there is a DVD that showed videotapes of their creative process. Show up in the morning, sit around in a circle strumming acoustic guitars, write lyrics all together out loud, record. At night, they left with a basic track...one each day. Unbelievable.

[jchitty]

I like some of what Lyle has said, but I'll add some further thoughts. I'm not so sure that Dylan was so mysterious or an image manipulator. I might take some heat for this, but the 70's era and pop psychology convinced us there is a formula for everything, including song crafting. Yeah, certain songwriters make a good living creating hits this way, and if you ask them how to write a song, they'll have a ready reply about what 'steps' you should go through to write a hit.But a lot of songwriters just aren't articulate people....they really don't know where they get their inspirations....they just come to them. You could tell from his old interviews that Dylan struggled and even became irritated when an interviewer called him 'brilliant' and asked how he went about writing his songs. During several of those old interviews (usually on PBS stations) Dylan would just shrug and say, "man, I don't know where I get my ideas, they just come to me.'I think Dylan was saying that there are no words to express how he gets his ideas....I find myself in a similar quandry when people ask me how I write songs, although I in no way consider myself Dylan or even one tenth near his caliber.But songwriting IS a mysterious process.....and I think Dylan was letting everyone know that formula type responses to interviewers were just kind of silly. In this day and age, Dylan would be seen as arrogant I guess.....everyone is supposed to be 'ready' with that response as to how they got an idea for a song, how long it took them to develop it, how many hours they write a day, etc.Music is supposed to conform to a business model now.I will add that before Dylan, song crafting was formulaic too... (I think of old 40's and 50's tunes with their 'perfect rhyme' scheme) Dylan broke down boundaries, only to see them spring back again.

[Mark Kaufman]

Quote:I might take some heat for this...Not from me...I think you're right on.Here's a quote that ought to drive most of us nuts:"But as far as songwriting, any idiot could do it. If you see me do it, any idiot could do it." -Bob Dylan

[ddusty]

My question to ArkJack is what musicians were giving you grief for being a Dylan fan!?!I'll admit, my story is much like steve's, when i was a kid i hated Dylan because he had a crummy voice and i didn't understand his lyrics. But I was a stupid kid. Now that I am a stupid adult, I can truly appreciate Dylan. Niel Young also fits into this category for me.My point is, I don't know ANYONE worth their salt as a musician who would give anyone crap for being a Dylan fan. I'm not saying every musician worth a damn is a Dylan fan, but they would at least understand why other people can appreciate it, even if it isn't their cup of tea.

[arkjack]

Hi DustyHad to think about the answer to that question as to who gave me grief about Dylan and why. So now, at the great risk of offending some other friends I do think I have some insight. It might just be a Philly thing. Throughout the years, a lot of great guitarists were born out of Philly. One of the key educators of guitar prodigies was Dennis Sandole, and in NY and Phily, Joe Sgro. It was a very jazz based intensive school, and built around the ability to make complexity with scale patterns at lightening fast speeds, inordinate chord progressions and wild soloing. When it came to a Dylan song, it was just too 'simple' to the point that many players felt it was beneath them. I guess that everyone had the aspiration to sound like Mahavishnue Orchestra rather than have a simple melody and song.I have no hard evidence on that notion. But it was a Jedi Knight kind of training environment. Whether players still feel that way, I don't know. I can remember the 1972 concert in Philadelphia with Bob Dylan and the Band, that lead to the Before the Flood album. That's when it became cool to play Dylan songs.ArkJack

[ddusty]

Ahhh,that actually makes sense. In that setting virtuosity is more important then lyrical content (not saying one is right or wrong, just different genres place importance on different aspects).But to anyone who tries to write lyrics, Dylan's words are equivalent to a bombastic guitar solo! It just depends where one's talent lies.If someone is not a fan of a particular genre, there is a good chance that they will not appreciate even the best at what they do.Rob

[leejohnson]

I would have to ask anyone who doesn't think Bob Dylan is an American icon "what, were you raised by wolves?"