Songwriting Process. How do you do it?

[rfrey]

Hello everyone,I hope this thread is not too redundant, but I did attempt to search the forum first before starting it. For a long time I've struggled with refining my songwriting process. Where things typically fall off track is with critiques. I've made the mistake before of thinking that my attempt at a song was 'The One' and gone to the studio and wasted a bunch of money only to find that it needed a rewrite, which I've learned as a result of getting critiques. In the past, I've recorded the rough song using guitar/piano/vocal and put out for critiques and get comments about the production, rather than the song itself.So, I'm back to looking for a good source for critiques on my songs (Melody, structure and lyrics). I think this forum is a great start. I would love to hear of others in this community what your songwriting process is. Thanks so much for anything anyone wishes to share on this topic!

[arkjack]

There's a process???Actually, I'll share some 'experience'. First, I think that there is a lot of space in the subjectivity surrounding a critique. I have found over and over that just because a song doesn't make a forward with Taxi or a cut with a major artist that it is automatically a poor song. Its more a 'song in the right hands of the right people with the right artist and the right time'. I had done the same thing a little differently. I started with the 8 track recording covers of songs I knew to get 'the hang' of the engineering. Then I went and spent tons of time on about 36 recordings of my own songs. I was going to press my own CD when they were done. Then I joined Taxi, and got submission critiques and custom critiques on the songs. That's when it all went awry. I learned that what I thought were great songs and fairly high quality recordings weren't really that great and didn't pass the bar for broadcast Q at least for being Taxi forwards. That put the kabash on pressing the CD and got me focused on being a better writer, engineer, and producer. 2 1/2 years later and I'm still getting returns. In that 2 year time frame I tried a bunch of different tactics and innovations to generate exciting lyrics, melodies, chord progressions, lifts into chorus's and bridges, attended seminars, read books, bought CDs and DVDs trying to find "The Process'. I used MasterWriter, and I even wrote a program that took random phrases through a word processor coupled with powerverbs to come up with lines that would sting when the slapped you in the face. I look back on some of the agony I went through to rewrite some songs and try to follow the rules and suggestions of the critiques, and see that at the end of the road, I haven't come up with anything "much better". In many cases, the rewrites got worse critiques.I guess the reason I am responding and sharing this is that I have driven myself nuts more than once trying to find that process. I just read the year end issue of Rolling Stone an article about how the whole business after a dismal performance in CD sales and lack of digital sales increases to make up the difference is leading to major layoffs, and depressed stock prices. From that perspective, you might be inclined to say that the whole industry is looking for that "process", especially the A&R people that get their pink slips for January 1. For myself, I am at a point where I try to produce based on what sounds good to me. That actually is as much of an 'educated' guess as a critique and just as subjective. It may not be the right place to be and I may change as time moves on and I still see no Taxi forwards. But the place I'm most comfortable at the moment is writing ArkJack songs, with an ArkJack sound in the production. The gamble then is whether a screener who hears the ArkJack song can say that it is something that major artist X XY would like to "cover". After studying it inside and out, there is music and songs that sound great 'to me'. If it doesn't sell a million copies oh well.... it still sounds great to me, so who really lost out??ArkJack

[edteja]

It does seem that the "process" involves improving your production as well as your songwriting. Having said that, if you are getting slammed for production, can't you find a lower cost way to demo the song and improve the production? Also, that will depend a lot on the genre you are aiming at.Reading my own post, I don't think it is much help, but my sympathies are there.

[hummingbird]

I think the "process" for me involved finally understanding (after a great deal of struggle, sweat & discouragement) that what works for me as an artist/singer/musican interested in exploring my own musical creativity... is not marketable to other artists. I started my journey 5 years ago thinking it was, and realized -- even once I had the skills to actually write decent songs -- that 99% of my songwriting is of me and for me, and I don't know how to change that. In addition, as I learned more about the industry, it became patently obvious that it is terribly terribly hard to successfully pitch songs to artists. Here's a quote from Ande Rasmussen's blog--"Songs picked for a project start off like this:Everything the artist writes gets first pick. Then the producer and their publishing company catalogue. Then the "Big Dog" writers. Then known publishers who have friends that have written with the artist. About 17th down the list are outside writers."I also learned that I had wasted a whole lot of money demoing songs that weren't good enough. Also, after a time, I found I wasn't always satisfied with a producer's version of my song. I decided I needed to learn how to produce my own stuff.So my process has been to focus on developing myself as an artist/songwriter/producer because that's what is meaningful to me, accepting that (other than marketing my own albums) that pitching songs wasn't in my make-up... but since Road Rally 2006 I added a new focus -- learning how to compose & produce music for film/tv. I figured it would take me about 5 years to grow the skills & the cataloque until it's working for me. At the same time, I'm still working on my own projects. They all have meaning to me, commercial or no, and I figure everything I write, whether it's good or bad, teaches me something, keeps me in the flow, keeps me open. Part of my process is also to continue to grow skills, like learning to play another instrument, or improving my skills on an instrument I already play. I also think it's important to watch movies & read books & have social contact so that you have life experience to draw from. So I'm one year into my five year plan and have one signed deal and other irons in the fire. Feels good.One last word about "process" - process is, to me, having the ability to see where you are now, how far you've come, and where you want to go & how you're going to become to get there. It's being motivated by what's within you, listening to your own voice, and removing ego (pride & low self-esteem). It's being aware & awake, valuing your time & creativity, and striving to grow beyond your programming. Hummin'bird

[rfrey]

Yeah, I think the real thing is about songwriting or anything creative and artistic is to have discipline. I have some real time to devote to songwriting over the next week and I'm feeling a bit overwhelmed I guess. No more excuses. When it comes to a 'process', I realize I'm looking for what John Braheny refers to as the craft of songwriting. Being able to sit down and work on songwriting, regardless of whether you feel 'inspired' or not. Just do something to move your craft foward. As far as critiques go, It sounds like what most people do is find a way to get the best quality demo done as cheaply as possible to give the song a fair shot. I appreciate this forum for the feedback regarding this. Its awesome. Thanks!Rich

[ephlat66]

Quote:One last word about "process" - process is, to me, having the ability to see where you are now, how far you've come, and where you want to go & how you're going to become to get there. It's being motivated by what's within you, listening to your own voice, and removing ego (pride & low self-esteem). It's being aware & awake, valuing your time & creativity, and striving to grow beyond your programming. Hummin'bird You are a very wise woman.I started down this musical road as a kid, and then put it away for 25 years because so many people had told me it was a crazy stupid dream that I started to believe them. About 5 years ago I decided that even if it WAS a crazy stupid dream, it's MY crazy stupid dream, and to hell with what other people think. So, I know that most of us dream of musical stardom, or about opening the mail and finding that invitation to the Grammy's, or having your favorite recording artist turn your song into a hit.But sometimes, when things seem to be progressing slower than I'd like, it helps me to remember that only a few short years ago, my goal was to convince myself and select members of my family that I wasn't completely nuts. My greatest desire at that point was to determine for real, if I had the talent and ability to even attempt the journey, much less crest the hill. I think this has gotten a bit more philosophical than the originator of this thread wanted, but in terms of process I think there are two things to remember:1) the process is more important than the destination, because ultimately there is no destination. Life and work are ALL about process. Someone once said that you're either moving forward or backward - there's no such thing as standing still. That tells me there's no such thing as destination, just markers along the way.2) the process consists of write, write, write, write, write and write some more. And at the same time, study, read, pray, love, plan, hope, listen. You might also want to throw in a measure of market, network, submit, persist, persist, persist! And if you do all those things, with your head screwed on straight about what really matters most, you'll get to the end of your life and be surrounded by people who find you indispensible in their lives. And the people who matter the most may not be record company execs. Just a thought.PS - sure will be nice to take someone I love to the grammy's!

[arkjack]

I tried a process last night....I had a chord progression and melody of a song I wrote and rewrote. Its a decent "song" in concept, but never seems to come together. I spent about an an hour and a half just writing and playing verse chorus verse chorus. I ended up with three pages of verses and choruses..... Sorry to say, none of them were working for me, except one line that seems to work great. It is a process. A process of frustration.And if I don't get back to posting later today.... Happy New Year everyone.ArkJack

[hummingbird]

Quote:I tried a process last night....I had a chord progression and melody of a song I wrote and rewrote. Its a decent "song" in concept, but never seems to come together. I spent about an an hour and a half just writing and playing verse chorus verse chorus. I ended up with three pages of verses and choruses..... Sorry to say, none of them were working for me, except one line that seems to work great. It is a process. A process of frustration.And if I don't get back to posting later today.... Happy New Year everyone.ArkJackput that stuff away for a few days and then come back to it. I find we are often dissatisfied with our first attempts at writing, painting, etc., because we feel it isn't working... but sometimes, the 'it isn't working' is because we are trying to 'make' what flows out of us fit an idea we have (this has got to be.... (good) (a hit) (just like..). If we go away for a few days and come back, we often have a different perspective. (This often happens with painting - if I try too hard... I get all wound up cause nothing works.... and I have to remind myself to follow the brush.)I have, two or three times, been so fed up with a piece of music I was working on that after rendering the last mp3 I deleted everything, just kept the mp3 in case there was something in it that might inspire me later. After a few days, I've gone back to listen to it... and I've always said 'wow, hey, there's some good stuff there - why did I throw that away!!?? Ack!!!'Hang in there!!!cheersHummin'bird

[telaak]

this may or may not help..but i'll add my 2 cents..a lot of the time i'll start a song idea that seems promising..but after some work the little voice in my head says "this sucks" {and that's after letting it kick around for a while}. Instead of stopping there i'll FINISH the song as an "exercise" to improve my skills as a writer..messing with the arrangement or maybe a new bridge..whatever..after almost 20 years of writing I know that you can't hit it out of the park every time you swing..but you can improve your "swing" to help your chances..this also may seem elementary, but I usually have several ideas working all the time..some are just lines, words or melodies captured by a little recorder..sometimes they're scribbled on whatever's available at the time..when inspiration strikes I try to put the pieces to the puzzle together..sometimes I walk away with a song, sometimes I put the puzzle back in the box for another day and get nothing. One of the best songs I ever wrote was just a melody that I carried around for about 5 years..it wouldn't die BUT I couldn't write lyrics to it to save my life...so while living in lauderdale by the sea , fl {about 3000 miles from where the melody was written}I heard a poet on NPR explain something she had written and it inspired me to FINALLY finish the song..I guess my point is don't force lyrics on a melody that you know is great {or vice versa} just to finish the song..just be patient..