Co-writing and chemisty

[jchitty]

Quote:Quote:Simon/Garfunkel, Brewer/Shipley (nope, they didn't make but one tune top 10, I jes really liked them), Deborah Harry and Chris Stein, Hall and Oates, and absolutely, Glen Tillbrook and Chris Difford from Squeeze (I so wanna remake "Tempted" I can't stand it).And of course, we have those in the early 1900s too. But let's not date ourselves. Garfunkel didn't share in the writing... Considering his voice, he didn't share in the singing either.

[jchitty]

Quote:I beg to differ......his voice did make a difference as did the harmonies.Oops, sorry....I think in my haste to a make a joke, I ended up with a botched attempt at humor. I do like some of Art Garfunkle's stuff....his solo (I think he was only solo on that) "I Only Have Eyes For You" was really good. And of course, Bridge Over Troubled Water and SOS wouldn't have been what it was without him. The press has always called him 'the less talented one', thus my joke, but that is certainly open for debate.

[jchitty]

Quote:Not your fault at all, swee'pea. I'm just cranky from this stupid back thing and I can't tell sarcasm on the boards lately! Ack! Hope your back starts to feel better, Squid.

[tedsingingfox]

Oh, go on and give Art a little more credit than that. He created the vast majority of his own harmonies to Paul's melodies and he sang EVERY single note of the lead vocal on Bridge Over Troubled Water, arguably their finest piece of art. But chitty, you and squidlips keep up the discussion. The tennis match you got going is too fun.Ted

[Casey H]

This issue of co-writing and chemistry is so important to folks like us who often try to collaborate with people they meet on message boards like this one. Some great things have come out of such collabs, no doubt. But my guess is the large majority of them fall apart due to lack of chemistry, style differences, egos, control issues, etc. Many of us (like me!) have control issues and that’s not a negative judgment. I find I have a hard time because I want to do it my way and keep control. But the silly thing is many songs never get finished or get any better while I hold on to that control.My own personal experience with successful on-line collaborations has only been when done as follows: One person is the owner or “Captain” and the other person feeds ideas such as lyrics, lyrical phrases, words, a bridge, a change in chords, etc. The Captain, for the most part, makes the final decisions. The Captain is usually the person who started the song. In a lot of ways, this is how Lennon and McCartney did it.My song, “Adrenaline” was collaboration. A lyricist from Australia found me on a web site and sent me some lyrics. I took many of the words and built a song around it, though I didn’t use the exact words. I was the Captain. The lyricist let me run with it. Another co-write, “Marry Me”, grew out of a songwriter I met on-line having music but no lyrics. I wrote lyrics, but she made some edits and had final say as the leader. Attempts to collaborate without a clear leader usually fell apart. Now, this is just MY experience. Yours might be different. Thoughts? PS Yes, Art was very important to the success of S&G... His harmonies were awesome and his solos ("For Emily..." and "Bridge...") were phenomenal... Casey

[jchitty]

Ted....Squid and I just decided to call it a tie. Glad to hear Squiddy's back is feeling better too.

[jchitty]

Quote:This issue of co-writing and chemistry is so important to folks like us who often try to collaborate with people they meet on message boards like this one. Some great things have come out of such collabs, no doubt. But my guess is the large majority of them fall apart due to lack of chemistry, style differences, egos, control issues, etc. Many of us (like me!) have control issues and that’s not a negative judgment. I find I have a hard time because I want to do it my way and keep control. But the silly thing is many songs never get finished or get any better while I hold on to that control.My own personal experience with successful on-line collaborations has only been when done as follows: One person is the owner or “Captain” and the other person feeds ideas such as lyrics, lyrical phrases, words, a bridge, a change in chords, etc. The Captain, for the most part, makes the final decisions. The Captain is usually the person who started the song. In a lot of ways, this is how Lennon and McCartney did it.My song, “Adrenaline” was collaboration. A lyricist from Australia found me on a web site and sent me some lyrics. I took many of the words and built a song around it, though I didn’t use the exact words. I was the Captain. The lyricist let me run with it. Another co-write, “Marry Me”, grew out of a songwriter I met on-line having music but no lyrics. I wrote lyrics, but she made some edits and had final say as the leader. Attempts to collaborate without a clear leader usually fell apart. Now, this is just MY experience. Yours might be different. Thoughts? PS Yes, Art was very important to the success of S&G... His harmonies were awesome and his solos ("For Emily..." and "Bridge...") were phenomenal... CaseyI like the way you say this....I couldn't have said it better. As far as control issues, I think it's okay that some are control freaks....some people just need more creative control.Me, I'm more like the fly by the seat of my pants type....offering someone a finished song and saying, 'here take this, and see where it goes.'I'm not so great when someone sends me a song and says, "here, rewrite my song.' Or 'write some lyrics for this idea.' I think it boils down to inspiration....I have to feel really inspired to create lyrics for other people's songs or ideas......when I'm not inspired, I tend to get lazy or write something that sounds forced and not very original. Every now and then, a person will bounce an idea off me, and I can collaborate with them, but for the most part, I just send them one of my fully finished songs and say, "here, run with it...if you want to rewrite some lines or change the melody I created, I'm game for it....I just offer them a template to work with. First, they have to like the song too, or they will do the same thing I do....not be inspired. That's one element I probably have to work on if I collaborate more, being jazzed by other people's ideas. I think many writers write so much from there own experience, so sometimes, it's hard to write from the standpoint of someone else's 'vision.'I actually like 'opening surprises' sometimes....I like to see what a co-writer will do with a song. I find too....that even if I had an idea fixed in my head about what a song should have been (the song I hear in my head when I write it), that if I listen several times to a song, I more often than not say, we wrote a much better song together than I could have on my own."

[Casey H]

Just a note that it might not be a good idea to mention any specific names on here...

[tedsingingfox]

Thanks for the head's up. Thought I was safe by NOT mentioning the third guy by name.

[jchitty]

Quote:Yeah, Casey, I hate to have to...but I agree with you. Damn it.Several months ago I got the chance to sit down and try to co-write with Artie Resnick ("Under the Boardwalk", "Good Lovin'") and another man.The first session was a blast. I came up with a title idea, which Artie promptly totally turned on its ear (in the best possible way), and we went to work laughing and brainstorming. The third man (who had set up the meeting) wasn't quite getting where we were going with the idea and spent most of the session taking notes.Our second session a few days later was completely sabotaged by that third man (whether it was a conscious thing on his part or not, I've never quite figured out), and after 90 minutes of sitting and waiting for him to join us and get started, Artie and I just agreed that this wasn't happening and left. That was the end of a potentially enormous opportunity for me (AND the third man, who says he is now too busy to waste time sitting down to co-write without getting paid). And the only thing I can guess is that he felt left out or not in control or something to that affect.I don't have personal contact info for Artie or I'd try to pursue this further, and that third man says he's not allowed to give it out. He's withholding this info for a reason.... And that's a crying shame.CRAP!Face-to-face can be just as tough as long-distance, on-line cyberspace if people aren't on the same page to begin with...Just my two cents worth...TedAnd PLEASE, Chitty, go for the fifth set tie-breaker. Please. Y'all had me smiling and laughing and eager to read your next posting...Wow, you got a chance to sit down and write with the guy who wrote "Under the Boardwalk?" That's one of my all time fave songs. That sucks, Ted.....sounds like the third guy just couldn't get his ego in check. If I felt like I wasn't contributing, I would have just accepted that the project wasn't right for me and allowed you two folks to write it anyway. I don't get that kind of silliness, but oh well.Okay.....will this make you happy, hehe?Art Garfunkel is the embodiment of all that is evil.....he is responsible for global warming, the budget deficit, the New World Order and the fact that the grocery store was out of Dove chocolate bars today.*just kidding*