Scoring DVD questions

[gen5020]

Hi guys, Thanks to TAXI (indirectly), I am about to embark on a new adventure; scoring a children's DVD. I will let you know upfront that the pay is small, but I'm ok with that because A) I've never done this before and B) it could lead to more jobs in the future.Here are my questions:1. The producers hope it will make TV, but if it doesn't, is there any PRO (ASCAP) royalties in DVD sales at a retail store? I'm assuming not but thought I'd ask. 2. If it did go to TV, I am elgible for ASCAP royalties even though I'm "transferring all copyrights" (according to the contract) to them, right? 3. Because I'm not making much money up front, would it be wrong to ask for a percentage of DVD sales? Is this ever done? I have this fear that this thing is going to be a "hit" and I'm going to end up breaking even with my time.I know you will say, go to an entertainment lawyer, and I still might, but boy, pretty soon I'll be paying them to let me do this!As always, I'd be most appreciative of any advice/help you big boys (and girls) could give me.Dave

[kouly]

Wow, I just get a bad feeling about these kind of things. I know it is a first time but doing it for low pay AND giving up any rights just sound like a bad deal all around. I would talk to a lawyer and see what they think. It is one thing to be giving up on the front end but to give up everything just seems wrong. Next time they might just charge you for the PRIVILEGE of doing it. This is just my opinion.

[sgs4u]

I would suggest looking for a different opportunity where you either get paid more, or are not asked to transfer your copyrights. Ask yourself why someone would want you to give up your rights to your own work. The answer will become clearer. It means 2 things to me, but you should think on it. If someone is hoping for you to do all this music for little pay, and give up your residuals, by assigning to them your copyrights, then you can simply decide if you will feel pleasure from doing the job. It's a no-brainer if all you need is the experience and the pleasure. You can find films or DVD's to work on, that won't expect you to sign everything away. It's a children's DVD, but who would've known how big Dora the Explorer would get? Will you be OK with making very little money, if DVD sales go through the roof?I always find that when I say no to something, because I know the situation isn't comfortable, a better door opens very quickly.

[horacejesse]

Well, this may only amount to the same misunderstanding I have seen several times.You always assign your copyrights over to a publisher. It looks a lot more suspicious than it is. That does not mean you have transferred your money earning rights to them.I don't know if it is standard to sign the copyrights over in this type of deal. You want to know what all terms mean and imply as they are used in the contract.

[edteja]

It depends to an extent on what that means: "giving up your copyrights." Are you signing all rights to them, or just the publishing? It shouldn't mean that you give up the writer's share, because that would be only in a work for hire. If they aren't paying enough for it to be a work for hire---don't sign!

[davewalton]

Quote:Hi guys, Thanks to TAXI (indirectly), I am about to embark on a new adventure; scoring a children's DVD. I will let you know upfront that the pay is small, but I'm ok with that because A) I've never done this before and B) it could lead to more jobs in the future.Here are my questions:1. The producers hope it will make TV, but if it doesn't, is there any PRO (ASCAP) royalties in DVD sales at a retail store? I'm assuming not but thought I'd ask. 2. If it did go to TV, I am elgible for ASCAP royalties even though I'm "transferring all copyrights" (according to the contract) to them, right? 3. Because I'm not making much money up front, would it be wrong to ask for a percentage of DVD sales? Is this ever done? I have this fear that this thing is going to be a "hit" and I'm going to end up breaking even with my time.I know you will say, go to an entertainment lawyer, and I still might, but boy, pretty soon I'll be paying them to let me do this!As always, I'd be most appreciative of any advice/help you big boys (and girls) could give me.Dave Hey Dave,The other Dave here. My interpretation is only a guess since I don't have the facts (and don't send the contract to me because I'm not an attorney) so take it with a grain of salt. There's more to it than this but in a simplified way, it seems that you're not being asked to give up residuals, you're just putting them in charge of marketing of the music that goes with the film. If it did go to TV you'd get the writer's share just like you would if you licensed this music with an exclusive deal with a music library. There are other ways of doing it where you retain the copyright but if that's really the way they want to do it, it's no different than getting an exclusive library deal. This is where that entertainment atty comes in handy. If it's what I think it is, I would have no problem doing this and here's why. Most don't realize how difficult it is to get your very first film scoring credit. Don't do this for the project itself, do it for what the project will lead to... another project somewhere. Having only one credit is a huge step away from having no credits and "no credits" isn't much of a convincing resume for bigger and better projects. I did several "copy/credit only" before I got a project that paid anything, so you're starting off pretty good.It's the battle of the egos... one ego says "I want to see my music in a film" and the other ego says "I'm too good to work for this kind of arrangement". Unless it's an out-and-out scam, use them as a stepping stone to your next project.Example of an out-and-out scam (I passed on this one early on):A company did short film projects every year and used single music tracks for each of their films. They wanted musicians to write tracks of music where they would assume copyright ownership immediately. If they used the music for the current film, they would pay something like $3000 but if they didn't, then they had the unlimited right to use the music in the future for $0. Well, obviously they NEVER paid for music. They used last years submissions for projects this year and this year's submissions would be used for next year, etc. So they created a "factory" whereby lots of musicians were pumping music into their company and by waiting that magical one year, they then could use that music however and whenever they wanted forever. They only sold DVD's, television usage or placement wasn't even a consideration so there never would be any money for any of the contributing musicians. That's the line I would never cross but the children's DVD, on the surface, sounds like a wonderful opportunity. Still, get that entertainment atty... Dave

[edteja]

How did you manage to hold back on that offer Dave?

[mazz]

Remember that even John Williams doesn't own the music he writes. It's all done under a perfectly legal Work for Hire aggreement where the film studio owns the copyrights to everything they get from him that goes in to the film. He still gets his writer's royalties everytime Jaws or whatever plays on Showtime.I agree with Dave W. that film scoring credits are worth more than money at this point in your career. Any film composer agent in LA will tell you (I've taken seminars with some of them) that they want to see credits before they'll even listen to your brilliant music because they want proof that you can write to picture and, even more important, can complete a project. The more credits the merrier, even if they're indie student films or Children's DVDs that go nowhere.And yes, pay to play is alive and well in the film business! Just ask the actors on this film! You probably got paid more than they did unless it was a union shoot (my wife acted in many indie films and sometimes she couldn't even get bridge toll! But she did it for the resume). I say don't get too hung up on your fee at this stage of the game, think of it more as building your business, one client at a time. When you get too busy to take more work on, then you're in a position to pick and choose your jobs based on different criteria, such as creative fees, back end percentages, etc.A percentage of sales is a tough one because from the production company's perspective, they want to close the books as far as "the talent" is concerned so they don't have to figure out how much they owe everyone if/when they start selling them. I wouldn't push too hard on that one, I'd cultivate the relationship so you get more work from them and become one of their trusted partners. Then you might be able to work out better rates, percentages, etc. in the future. Plus they might refer you to other producers. That's how it starts.One last point: Listen to Dave Walton! I've been watching him build up his film scoring credits and now he's starting to get paid. I would imagine a big factor in his ability to land these paying gigs (aside from the fact that he's a nice guy and a great composer) is that he has proven credits in the business. Good luck and have fun scoring the DVD!!MazzPS: I'm not an attorney, none of this was meant as legal advice!

[matto]

I have to agree with Dave W and mazz here. Quote:I know you will say, go to an entertainment lawyer, and I still might, but boy, pretty soon I'll be paying them to let me do this!You're not very likely to make a profit on your first scoring gig. That's just the reality of things. This is a business that takes patience (God if I had a nickel for everytime I've said/written this ) The first gig is a stepping stone.I can't comment on this deal without knowing any details (and if I did know details I still couldn't cause I'm not an attoreney), but on the surface it looks okay . A transfer of copyright of the music you wrote is not unusual for a situation like this (as mazz pointed out it's the standard arrangement for even the biggest film composers). The contract should specify somewhere though what happens performance royalty wise if the stuff makes it on tv.And ASCAP/BMI are PERFORMANCE royalty organizations and therefore have nothing to do with DVD sales.You could ask for some kind of a step deal, but if this is your first project you probably won't get it and it might not even be prudent to ask. Remember that, from the production company's point of view, they are taking a chance on a "nobody" who's "never done this before", so there's some risk involved for them. For all they know you could turn out to be incompetent, unable to deliver on time, or just a royal pain in the behind to work with.matto

[gen5020]

Thank you all for your informative replies!I just signed and sent off the contract and feel like I'm doing the right thing. Though it won't make a ton of money and it will be a ton of work, I think it will be a fun project. I will keep you all informed on the progress.Thanks again. You all helped me greatly!Dave