Do non-fowards make a you a better writer?

[jchitty]

Quote:Quote: I would agree in some sense...I know that when I've submitted the same song to different TAXI listings, I almost invariably get the same comments (about the problems with the song) from two or three different screeners... "In some sense"? That sounds a bit wishy-washy after you said you've received the same comments from multiple screeners... Casey"In some sense" wasn't meant to be a wishy washy comment, I just didn't elaborate further. I would agree with you in most cases if two or three people see something wrong with your song, than you have a problem. But that isn't always the case with other songs. I can think of instances (the song "I Swear) for example where a song was passed on by everyone....lots of A&R reps found the same thing wrong with it, and yet, it wasn't changed, and it became a hit song.

[jchitty]

Quote:Quote:I guess there are pros and cons of not getting a foward. On one hand, you could get discouraged and not write as much because you feel 'what's the use?" On the other hand, adversity might make you a better writer. There are times when I get a non-foward that I can't write for several days. And then there are times when I get a non-foward, and I think I write much better songs....all of a sudden, I want to write constantly and take those feelings of rejection and create songs which are filled with emotion and feeling, songs about the human condition, ones people might identify with. I don't write about rejection as songwriter though, I'll take that rejection and either write an inspirational song about overcoming odds in a general sort of way.Anyone else experience this?It's no surprise and no big deal that there's room for me to improve or that I didn't interpret the listing correctly. Tiger Woods still takes "golf lessons", why shouldn't I be open minded to the legions of individuals with more insight than I?Thanks to Taxi, I had music on network television a good number times in the last few months, yet I got two submitted songs recently returned on a listing for drama cues. One doesn't have anything to do with the other. I wound up submitted "crime" drama music because the listing mentioned dark and moody or something similar. Although the critique didn't say much in the negative beyond "not on target", I can reasonably speculate that they were looking for emotional drama. They didn't specifically say "crime" drama and so I read too much into the listing by making too much of the dark and moody stuff, turning it more into suspense/mystery... should have kept it simple and just done basic emotional drama cues. So, that's how I react. No big deal but I do my best not to make the same mistake again.BTW, early critiques that mostly dealt with my music, not my listing reading skills, pretty much exclusively helped me evolve from "out-of-date" New Age to something that's much more current, much more useful. Having a closed mind would have just resulted in lots of returns and ultimately lots of frustration.DaveI think my biggest problem lies in the fact that my listing interpretation is on target, (that's what the screeners always tell me), but since I'm pitching to someone like Alan Jackson or Kenny Chesney....I don't always have a 'feel' for what those guys REALLY want. I can write a country song but whether that song will appeal to those artists (and the screeners who know what they like to sing) is the hardest part to figure out.

[jeffe]

Some of the things that make you a better writer.Education.Practice.Failure (Though I choose not to use that word).The following is one of my favourite snippets, and It's something I live by when trying to achieve.Good old Thomas Edison and the Light bulb.He was asked by a newspaper "How does it feel to fail 700 times trying to invent a practical filament for an electric light?"He answered "I have not failed, not even once. However, I have proven that 700 different ways won't work. When I eliminate all the other ways that won't work, I will find the way that works."Now that's the kind of positive attitude I like.

[arkjack]

Goes back to what I said in an earlier thread.... the top guys in Nashville have the one big advantage of having the artists ear.... they can set up a meeting or even a co-write session and ask point blank.... "what do you want....?" then a few breaths later" ya mean something like this....???" I don't think non-forwards make you a better writer. I think it is the critique feedback that gets you motivated to be better, go out and research, abandon old songs that won't work, and write new songs.... In a case like mine where I'm still working toward that first forward I would bet that kind of motivation triples when you do get a forward because now you're finally onto something that worked. Like following up badonkadonk with ladies love country boys.....ArkJack

[Casey H]

Quote:I don't think non-forwards make you a better writer. I think it is the critique feedback that gets you motivated to be better, go out and research, abandon old songs that won't work, and write new songs.... ArkJackYes, it's not the non-forwards themselves. It's the critique feedback. This is true anytime you pitch to the industry and get any feedback. Most of the time, outside of TAXI, you get no feedback, but occasionally publishers will tell you something about why they didn't sign your song. People take the feedback one of two ways: They work hard to get better -or- they get frustrated and give up. Casey

[Casey H]

Quote: I would agree with you in most cases if two or three people see something wrong with your song, than you have a problem. But that isn't always the case with other songs. I can think of instances (the song "I Swear) for example where a song was passed on by everyone....lots of A&R reps found the same thing wrong with it, and yet, it wasn't changed, and it became a hit song. Hi J... Don't forget basic probabilities. Yes, there are the occasional big hits that many A&R folks overlooked. But you shouldn't use the one in thousands "miracle" as a model. You need to go with the odds. If multiple, respectable, professionals give you the same feedback and you decide not to address the issues because of those rare occasions like you mentioned, you may just be deceiving yourself. There is nothing wrong with deciding to stick to your guns and stay with what you have as long as you truly understand the big potential downside. I've certainly done it, for better or for worse. But, my goal is not to get a song cut by a Nashville artist.BTW, Congrats on that recent review! Sounds like you have a song with very good potential there!Warm regards, Casey

[mixopenta]

I guess rejection is one of the factors that separates a good writer from a bad one. If rejection gets to you so hard that you're quitting, than I guess you wasn't such a good writer after all. If you keep on going and get even more motivated; ("I'll show'em"), than you're probably a good writer.For me, the hardest thing is to overcome my ego when writing and completing songs. In the sense that I have a tendency of surprising myself too easily; "This is the best thing I've ever done". Then when listening to it a couple of weeks later, I'll go: "Well that wasn't so good". Instead I try to lean more toward being almost negative, thinking; "What is just almost what I had in mind? If e.g. the bridge didn't exactly turn out the way I had in mind, it's back to the drawing board. I've noticed that this approach generally render better results. (well, duh - but you know what I mean, sometimes you might rely too heavily on happy accidents, at least I do).Then there are the people around you that are almost always positive about your work. They have the same flaw, - they get surprised too easily thinking "That's him, its actually quite good, sounds just like stuff you hear on the radio...If you play a song to these people "unannounced" and they'll go "Did you do this"?, you know you're back to the drawing board.

[jchitty]

Quote: Quote: I would agree with you in most cases if two or three people see something wrong with your song, than you have a problem. But that isn't always the case with other songs. I can think of instances (the song "I Swear) for example where a song was passed on by everyone....lots of A&R reps found the same thing wrong with it, and yet, it wasn't changed, and it became a hit song. Hi J... Don't forget basic probabilities. Yes, there are the occasional big hits that many A&R folks overlooked. But you shouldn't use the one in thousands "miracle" as a model. You need to go with the odds. If multiple, respectable, professionals give you the same feedback and you decide not to address the issues because of those rare occasions like you mentioned, you may just be deceiving yourself. There is nothing wrong with deciding to stick to your guns and stay with what you have as long as you truly understand the big potential downside. I've certainly done it, for better or for worse. But, my goal is not to get a song cut by a Nashville artist.BTW, Congrats on that recent review! Sounds like you have a song with very good potential there!Warm regards, CaseyOkay, points taken. Thanks, Casey. I am excited about the review.

[jchitty]

Jeffe, I like your comment about Edison and the lightbulb...I think that sums it all up. It's better to look at 'failures' as different ways that 'don't work.' I don't want to sound like someone in 'Guidepost' magazine, but I think that if you look at things in a positive way rather than a negative way, it'll get you much further.Arkjack, yeah that first foward is a real confidence booster...when you get those, you know you're doing something right.Upeters, yeah, if you let rejection stop you, then you probably aren't a person who's meant to write songs. If it motivates you, then you probably have songwriting skills. I had instances where I thought my song was good, and then I'd look at it again and realize it wasn't so good. Then I've written a song straight through in fifteen minutes....it was a like some inspiration sent from up about...it just flowed....I don't get many songs like that...they are very few, but they are probably my best ones.

[jeffe]

Well. Put simply.If you give up. You'll never make it.