Saying things in a more interesting way

[asiabackpacker]

There's something I really struggle with in my lyrics. It's saying things in ways that's not kind of hackneyed..and in a way that just feel more interesting..But the challenge of it is, it's hard to know if it's just the fact that I am so close to my own lyrics that makes me feel like some of them aren't interesting, or if it is genuinely something that I can stand to improve. I often find that one of the lines that I think is the weakest one in one of my songs is the lines that someone else will comment on as being the strongest, so maybe it all just come down to personal opinion and interpretation.I'll try and give some examples.I really like Keane. I don't even know what they're singing about most of the time, but I just really like the way they phrase their lyrics (it probably comes down to the way the lyrics sing, too)...I just find what they sing about-not original in any way-but the way they say things, just slightly unique, and "fresh," and that is the appeal to me.For example:She says she has no timeFor you nowis a very simple chorus, but says something in an ever so slightly more interesting way, that's probably been said about 10 million times before. To be honest, I'm not even totally sure what the rest of the song is about, but this lyric (along with a lot of others of theirs), I just find interesting...It's not saying much, but I feel like the way it's saying it is just a little different from how I've heard it said a zillion times before....They have other lyrics that I think are more extreme.... lyrics that are just (in my opinion anyway) genuinely very interesting. And also sing very well, come across easily in a pop song, and are different than a lot of other lyrics I hear on the radio. I think this is part of the appeal of Keane.Oh simple thing where have you gone?I'm getting old and I need something to rely onLove that lyric.Another example of a lyric (also from Keane) that I think says something I've heard a bunch of times before, but just says it in a slightly more interesting way (that I haven't heard before), is this:We might as well be strangers in another townWe might as well be living in a different worldI think that's even more extreme than the first example too, thoughShe says she has no timeFor you nowis just interesting and simple. And I don't think anything I've written hits in quite the way that that lyric does (or at least the way it hits me). (maybe it comes down to the way it is sung too, which could be another discussion) Maybe my own lyrics will never hit me in the same way that other people's lyrics me. That's probably a good argument for finding a collaborator (which I'm working on)...Here's an example from my own lyrics, that I'm working on right now (and what drove me to this post).....In a few short daysI’m gonna beFlying over the seaI’ll be alone in that planeLetting you goAs fast as I said helloChorus:And I Hope not a minute goes byThat IFeel like I wastedA moment here in your armsThe first two verse sections, I like. It's a love song (a true one by the way) that I've heard a million times, but I feel like there's a slightly more interesting story developing here... I've probably even heard love songs that start out with even the same or a similar story line. But my personal feeling is that rythmically, melodically, and even in the lyrics and the rhyme structure, it is interesting enough to me and it is distinctive enough from other things I've heard to make it worthy of being said again. I'm pretty happy with the verse sections so far.But then I get to the chorus, and while it's saying what I want to say, it's not saying it in a way that I feel is very unique, or even necessarily very interesting. I feel like it's saying something in the same way that it's been said a bunch of times before. I feel like the chorus is kind of a cliché.And that's where I'm stuck. I've been listening to Keane, and trying to figure out what it is that they do, and why it's so damn effective.Ryan Adams is another contemporary artist I listen to who also does what I want to achieve, and what Keane does really well. The guy writes about a new song every freaking 5 minutes, and half of them are about the same thing. But somehow, he delivers lyrics that are just slightly more interesting, and slightly more unique than a lot of what I've heard before. He says things in a slightly more interesting, or unique way.There's an example of his where I just can't think of the lyric right now, but another line of his that comes to mind is:It's harder now that it's overI'm not talking about brilliant lyrics. I'm just talking about lyrics that say something I've heard said a bunch of times, in just a slightly different way than I've heard it said before. The line above is very simple, but says something a little differently, and conveys a lot of information and a lot of emotion in very few words (hmmmmmmm....maybe I just nailed it right there.....maybe this is simply about conveying information and emotion in a few words....maybe that is the simple reason why some of the lines above are so effective)....they convey information and emotion in the fewest possible words, and they sing (and speak) easily...they almost just flow off the tongue....OK..... I think I'm gonna stop blabbing now, and get back to the writing I feel like I may have figured some small part of this out, but would love anyone else's thoughts....Elliott

[jewelwing]

Blues Traveler has a somewhat pessimistic song about the subject of writing lyrics called "(The) Hook." According to that song, it's all in the inflection.

[asiabackpacker]

Quote:Blues Traveler has a somewhat pessimistic song about the subject of writing lyrics called "(The) Hook." According to that song, it's all in the inflection. Funny (just read those lyrics). Inflection must be a big part of it...after all, one of Ryan Adams' hooks is, "Oh my God, whatever, etcetera," and it's good song, IMO....I think I've made some progress on my lyric. I focused on what I really wanted to say rather than using words that other people have already used to say something that approximates what I am getting at, and I ultimately came up with:Chorus:And I hope we don’t regretWhat we didn’t doAnd I hope I don’t forgetThe way I opened up to youWhat I originally wrote, was:Chorus:And I Hope not a minute goes byThat IFeel like I wastedA moment here in your armsOpinions? Does anyone think the new one is stronger?....weaker? Personally I feel like it more specifically relates to the feeling and the experience I'm trying to convey. It is more individual to what I'm going through. But does that mean that someone else is going to perceive it as a stronger lyric? I'm not really sure, so would love some feedback...Thanks!Elliott

[sgs4u]

Quote:Does anyone think the new one is stronger? The new one is much better, imho. But singing with conviction will win over substance almost anytime, in my books. At least I think, it's more important.

[billg]

What Steve said! I think with a lot of the really great songwriters conviction always wins. One of my favorite writers is Graham Parker. He has this song in which he's singing to a friend who has a great girlfriend/wife but treats her like crap & she doesn't deserve it. It's a beautiful song with a lot of imagery . . . in a nice "tip-toe around the issue" way he describes & explains the problems of being controlling & why you shouldn't treat people you love like crap. The lyrics are awesome & really suck you in. One of my favorite lines is " . . . everytime a caged bird sings, it knows it's in a trap . . . " then he follows that line with one that would have djust killed this beautiful song if it hadn't been for the delivery. The whole phrase is . . . . "Everytime a caged bird sings, it knows it's in a trap. And everytime she packs her things it's because of your clap-trap . . . ." After getting sucked in by imagery, this crass awful line just hits you like a 2x4 upside the head. But the way he delivers it, with this incredible attitude & conviction it makes you sit up & say, " Yeah, right on Graham, tell it like it is!." His delivery & attitude turn a song deystroyer into a powerful, lyrical "rope-a-dope". Of course, being a song writing genious helps!

[asiabackpacker]

I'll have to check out Graham Parker...I think you guys are right...to some extent it is all about conviction.Which would explain why I've seen people that are much better singers than me, bring life to certain lyrics of mine that I was never able to. They had the ability to sing those lines with real conviction (because that's their job), even though I may not have been able to....(or even if I didn't write the lyric with real conviction....)I think if my lyrics don't feel right to me when I sing them, it's because I just haven't written what I really want to say, in quite the way that I want to say it. For me, that's where the conviction comes from. I'm not a great singer, so I can't sing something with conviction unless I really mean it (I guess I'm just not a good actor).... so I guess how much conviction I can sing my own lyrics with is a good test for me of how truthful I'm being to what I'm trying to say...

[tedsingingfox]

And, FWIW, Keith Richards says it's all about "vowel movements". I love that. And after trying it a couple of times, it's a great, fun way to reshape "iffy", unclear lyrics...Ted

[geo]

The new version is definately stronger there Elliott. I am enjoying going over my old material (stopped gigging/writing for 10 years ) and found that I'm able to approach the lyrics better now(before I was writing, practicing, booking gigs etc, got burnt out). It's funny though, what I think is a clever, unique lyric sometimes gets the "doesn't sound conversational" from screeners but most times it's a fav of mine, case in point:Is all I want, what you want, a chance to care,Love's collage, not a two car garage, I want someone who's there.I've always loved that line but apparantly not a favorite of theirs.But then I'll listen to something on the radio and I find the rhyming pattern to be pretty standard , so who knows? The Shadow knows!! (sorry, couldn't resist)But the singer does help a line "go over" with the delivery, I totally believe that. You need to look no further than Kermit the Frog's "It's not easy being green", how many other singers could pull that off, LOL ... Geo

[jewelwing]

I have a tough time getting into lyrics without hearing the delivery, both melodically and vocally. Several times I have worked with a lyricist who handed me words (basically a poem) and asked me to turn it into a song. I found that staying with the words I was given limited what I could do musically, and didn't work well with how I create. When I write a song by myself, I either start with a melody (which usually winds up as the chorus), or I start with a concept and key phrase that I sing over and over to myself, to see where it takes me in words and music - what needs to rhyme/what doesn't, what words should hang out in the air/what words need to go fast, where the drama and pathos goes, etc. I usually finish a rough chorus first, then one verse. As soon as I have a verse, then the task becomes creating appropriate words in the same musical pattern for whatever plot point is needed in each verse. I do give thought to making word choices appropriate to the genre of the song (which might connect with the "freshness" idea) and take my inpsiration from how I would describe it to a friend, without cliches (unless it's a country song). But for me, the words, delivery and music are all mixed together in creating the imagery, action and gut-level emotion of the song.

[millieg]

I'm new around here but I think your new chorus is defintiely stronger than the first. I think an even stronger last line might be 'everything about you'. Just my 2 cents.