AB vs. AA & Other Sundry Structures...

[jetcitylove]

Hey y'all, I've been waiting to finally post - I have so many questions.First let me say, I WILL definitely be joining TAXI officially, as soon as I pay some bills ..groan.Anyhow - I've written 28 songs (indie/rock) this month for my debut home-made CD and I'll only be selecting probably 12 (MAYBE 15...? Too many?) that I think are user-friendly that I enjoy still. But.. my song structures tend to vary.Question #1Is it really a bad thing that most of my tunes are ABABA structure (and they do go on with C and D sections too.. but they all almost start with ABABA or ABCABC)I tried doing the standard AABBAA...or AAABCB setup - whatever they were...and it felt like the verses were too many.Question #2Sure I want to sell my music and make millions and be a rock start (don't we all?) - But I have no desire or envy for a lot of the Top 40 crap songs out there. I may not be "hip with the kids" at 28... But all these Labels seem to be looking for another Rufus Wainwright, The Shins, more White Stripes...etc.Is being original really gonna cost me in the end? Because I don't even have a specified genre really - I just write and play whatever I feel like and hope it sounds good that others can enjoy it. (FYI, I know other Musicians tend to have fun with my music because I geek out on occasion with odd time signatures..but how often does that fly on the radio?)Whew..!Thanks.

[squidlips]

Hey Jet,Great to see you here. Okay, you've got a few questions so let me start out by saying that while there are certainly commercial formulas out there, you can find your own niche if you do it well enough. And you mention that you don't follow any particular genre. That could be a strength too.It might help if you post a link to one of your songs as an example so we can hear what you're talking about. Not following a format can be okay if it's done well and is interesting and appealing but it's a tricky proposition.I've only been on the forums for a month or so and it wasn't until maybe 3 weeks or so ago that I actually sat down and wrote something specifically for a Dispatch listing, rather than submitting my own originals. Not that it wasn't an original too but you know what I mean. It was kinda fun and challenging to try to see if I could make that work. Stretched my mind a little, so don't rule out writing for a particular listing, since you seem to like lots of genres.Anyway, let's have a listen to something and see what we're talking about here.

[Casey H]

Quote:Hey y'all, I've been waiting to finally post - I have so many questions.First let me say, I WILL definitely be joining TAXI officially, as soon as I pay some bills ..groan.Anyhow - I've written 28 songs (indie/rock) this month for my debut home-made CD and I'll only be selecting probably 12 (MAYBE 15...? Too many?) that I think are user-friendly that I enjoy still. But.. my song structures tend to vary.Question #1Is it really a bad thing that most of my tunes are ABABA structure (and they do go on with C and D sections too.. but they all almost start with ABABA or ABCABC)I tried doing the standard AABBAA...or AAABCB setup - whatever they were...and it felt like the verses were too many.Question #2Sure I want to sell my music and make millions and be a rock start (don't we all?) - But I have no desire or envy for a lot of the Top 40 crap songs out there. I may not be "hip with the kids" at 28... But all these Labels seem to be looking for another Rufus Wainwright, The Shins, more White Stripes...etc.Is being original really gonna cost me in the end? Because I don't even have a specified genre really - I just write and play whatever I feel like and hope it sounds good that others can enjoy it. (FYI, I know other Musicians tend to have fun with my music because I geek out on occasion with odd time signatures..but how often does that fly on the radio?)Whew..!Thanks.Hi JetIndie rock, as a genre, is often more forgiving than genres such as country and pop. Are you pitching film/TV? Good songs that have hooks in non-chorus formats are sometimes OK there.I've written a lot of ABAB format songs. I generally assume they could never be "singles", even if they were great songs. (There is one of mine like that on the "ONE and only ONE song" thread).This might not apply to you in your genre, but I wrote it before I realized you were an indie rocker: The reality is the overwhelming majority of successful songs are chorus driven- the main hook being in the chorus. Usually VCVCBC (B=bridge) or VCVCVC. If you want to market (especially country and pop) with another format, the hooks in your sections have to be real undeniable killers to overcome the "no chorus" disadvantage. Many publishers won't even listen past a minute if they don't hear a chorus. Interestingly, the Beatles were masters of formats like ABAB with killer hooks everywhere so it didn't matter. Many popular Beatles songs had no chorus. But, then again few of us have McCartney's talent for such hooks.As Squidlips suggested, post links to 1-2 songs here. That would help us give you some feedback.Welcome aboard, Casey

[jetcitylove]

hmm.. well thanks y'all!Unfortunately, the only songs I have available to check out aren't the ones in question (and they were written for Dance pieces - oh yeah, I forgot to mention my day job is writing music for Modern Dance Companies and Ballet Companies and let me tell you - EASY money & EASY exposure amongst an impressive audience. FYI.)You can hear the published pieces of the past... www.myspace.com/jetcityrecordsAs soon as I finish my rock-oriented album, I'll posting those songs and overhauling the page design etc.As for the songwriting:Yeah, I can see how producers/labels just care about the chorus - So my approach is - ALL sections need to be amazing. The minute the chorus is awesome - even extremely catchy - then the verses are failing.I guess two confusing examples of song structure (not sound) I could refer my style to you could find off both new albums by Tori Amos ('Almost Rosey' off American Doll Posse) and Bjork's 'Declare Independence" from Volta.They set you up for a Verse, Verse Chorus thing you think but then start going wherever they want and it's confusing. But they're also examples of songs that will NEVER be played on the radio - even though they're cool tunes.Speaking of hits, and this could be a whole new thread but..All the pop princess clones, all the boy bands, the American Idol types... - Even the new genre of what I call 'glossy old guy' where they take a legend of the past and 'reunite' them with whoever for a limited engagement tour...It seems to me labels, producers, radio - Can't even dream of thinking outside the box because they want to go with the 'safe' formula that works.Everyone keeps complaining that the music Industry is awful now, the talent is minimal etc - But I don't believe this because there are TONS of artists I've been finding who have zero publicity and amazing skill. I thought about this and - I could be wrong - but in a way, The music Industry just got served a one-two punch in the past 10 years.Punch 1 = Napster and napster-like sites that brought about mp3 theft. (money the labels never saw...or the artists which I am suspicious about since a few have mentioned they had such awful contracts with some major labels that they were barely seeing that money to begin with and had to pay for their own tours to bring home the bacon.)Punch 2 = Indie Artists (like me.. and I could be flattering myself). See, rather than join sites like Taxi or struggle to get a demo heard, some people prefer to make music at home on laptops and such thanks to affordable software, mix em, and post them on the internet and podcasts - Think of a great idea for a viral video and you're a youtube overnight success. Once that artist has the buzz, and has proven they have no use for a label, all the money they make.. is money the big leagues never saw also.Ani Difranco is a textbook example of how to self-produce. I wonder how many executives still kick themselves for having missed her.. and still, she's in charge of her work.Food for thought.