'Just' a songwriter...

[birgitb]

I have just joined Taxi and although I have been trying my best to scroll through (most of) the forum (headers) to avoid placing a duplicate query - it could take me the better part of the rest of my life... I am 'just' a songwriter and therefore make basic demo recordings of my songs to be uploaded. Although I definitely don't sing 'out of tune', I certainly don't have perfect pitch either. Could this 'imperfection' be a disadvantage when submitting a demo to a listing for songs?Also,when I upload songs to Taxi - are these songs evaluated in the same way (vocally) than those for aspiring recording artists?

[Casey H]

Quote:I have just joined Taxi and although I have been trying my best to scroll through (most of) the forum (headers) to avoid placing a duplicate query - it could take me the better part of the rest of my life... I am 'just' a songwriter and therefore make basic demo recordings of my songs to be uploaded. Although I definitely don't sing 'out of tune', I certainly don't have perfect pitch either. Could this 'imperfection' be a disadvantage when submitting a demo to a listing for songs?Also,when I upload songs to Taxi - are these songs evaluated in the same way (vocally) than those for aspiring recording artists?Welcome! In general, you need at lease a half-decent demo to pitch your songs. If you are pitching for film/TV use, the recordings have to be "master quality" which means they sound close to or good enough to play on the radio. For these opportunities, they want your track "as-is", there is no re-recording. If you want to pitch your songs for other artists, the requirements are less stringent, but you need, at the minimum, a very clean and on-pitch vocal with a guitar or piano. A better demo is a big advantage as long as it is not overdone in a way that is distracting, takes away from the vocal/lyrics, etc. With the advent of affordable home studio technology, the competition is very stiff and it is getting harder for someone to listen to your rough demo when they can listen to a better one.One suggestion is to use outside songwriter demo services. These are not inexpensive, so first get a lot of feedback on your song before investing the money. You said you already joined TAXI so you can get a custom critique for $10. You can also get critiques on your song (the song itself) using a number of services such as John Braheny's at www.johnbraheny.com ... If you post a song somewhere (any free site that lets you upload songs) where folks on this forum can hear it, many will give you feedback. It takes a bit of "baring your soul", but many of us do it... Good luck! Casey

[jchitty]

Quote:I have just joined Taxi and although I have been trying my best to scroll through (most of) the forum (headers) to avoid placing a duplicate query - it could take me the better part of the rest of my life... I am 'just' a songwriter and therefore make basic demo recordings of my songs to be uploaded. Although I definitely don't sing 'out of tune', I certainly don't have perfect pitch either. Could this 'imperfection' be a disadvantage when submitting a demo to a listing for songs?Also,when I upload songs to Taxi - are these songs evaluated in the same way (vocally) than those for aspiring recording artists?Hi, b. You and me are in the same boat. I am mainly a songwriter, and I can't make my own demoes. I have to use demo services too. I am really pleased with my demo service, but cost can be a factor. I did make one demo with another local musician though.....if you can find a good musician in your area, they will often times make a demo for you at a very reasonable price. Plus, local musicians usually know of some pretty good vocalists around your area, so they might find a singer for your demoes at a pretty good price. If you can afford a professional demo service, go with that, if not, the local musician route may be best for you. You can also use a pitch corrector on your voice if you want to be singing on your demo, provided your voice is fair. Pitch correctors can be pricey though. I don't see anything wrong with using pitch correction if you're just singing for a demo. You want to put your best foot foward, but if I was an artist, I'd feel like I was cheating....although some artists now use it now. When I collaborated with this local musician, we used pitch correction on my voice when we did our song, "Stumble On Through This World.' It came out okay. One disadvantage to pitch correctors is the person engineering your demo has to use it properly, or you'll get a cheesy effect if you're not careful.I'll echo Casey's sentiments too....get a critique before you make your demo. It might help iron out some problem spots with your song before you have an expensive demo made. It serves you better to make the best possible demo you can when you're submitting. Competition is so stiff these days. Your demo needs to be as polished as it possibly can.

[birgitb]

Thank you both Casey and Chits! I am lucky to have a friend who owns a small studio - I sing/record the basic vocals (verses and choruses) on a click-track and he then continues getting the backtrack (music) ready for the recording after we have discussed a specific feel and tempo - we get into heated arguments once in a while - but he's always shown great insight. I suppose it helps that he hears the 'raw' song (lyrics) before there's any music and the fact that he knows me all too well... I truly appreciate your interest and comments and will upload a few songs as soon as my network connection problems (ftp-errors) have been addressed!Thanks again!BB

[clonsberry]

There's enough of us in that boat to start our own navy. I've been writing songs for decades but never tried to do anything with them. Never took it very seriously. In the meantime, I was playing guitar. Lots of guitar. (Left handed and upside down.. so if songwriting doesn't work out, I've got a future in the circus) One of the areas I've made some traction (and cash) in was new age instrumental stuff. And it was fun but then I really started getting more active in writing. I had done so much writing that I went through a short phase of questioning what the point was. I've got stacks of songs and no one's hearing them. At the same time, while I can carry a tune, I don't think my voice is anything like marketable. (although, some really famous singers can't "sing" to save their lives. I guess it's all about being unique.. or sexy... I'm half way there.)Plus, looking ahead, I thought about the outcome. Okay.. I make it big by some fluke. Then I have to think about touring. Don't want to spend that kind of time away from my family. (If I was in my 20s, it might be different). And I'm too nervous on stage anyway. I don't "enjoy" being the center of attention. (I do love playing as part of a band but then it's not all about me.)So.. after a lot of soul searching, I figured out that I really don't want to pursue being an artist. It won't take me where I want to go in life. I'll do my little gigs here and there. But my real interest is songwriting.There are a tons of questions that I have. I may be a fairly seasoned artist, but I'm a baby in the business. I just joined Taxi as well. It's time to find out where the rubber hits the road. It's easy to have friends and family tell you you can write great songs. But I want to know how I measure up to real songwriters. If I don't, then it becomes a matter of figuring out how to get better at it.Personally, I'm hoping to write for other artists. That's where I want to be.So.. this is all new to me. Demos. Publishing. What's expected. (That's right, I don't even know where the watermark is yet.) I'm pretty sure I'm going to get taken advantage of at some point.. but it won't happen the same way twice. I'm just a songwriter too but I'm also a whirlwind of enthusiasm and I'm sure I'll be talking to a bunch of you along the way... drawing from your experience.So if I cross some invisible line, please forgive me.. I too am just a songwriter.

[arkjack]

Ive been writing songs for over 35 years and been with TAXI about 2 years. I could write for hours here on some of my observations, but I'm still at work. So I'll try to make it content rich, but also brief and concise......It is better to go with low price demos and very basic home done recordings for "song pitches", and have them frequently critiqued by serious industry pros on a regular basis. When you find something that starts getting high review scores and is striking a chord with the reviewers, then you can think about the point where a more studio produced demo might be advised or even absolutely necessary. Simple demos can work for a great song, but that simple demo these days has to compete with elaborately produced crap songs. There will always be a trade-off - want a great demo, but don't want to spend a fortune.... (quality -cost contradiction)As Casey pointed out, if you are pitching Film and TV, the songs have to be broadcast quality. I think the elements of this are deceiving. There's a kinda "everyone can do it" encouragement, but what I've found so far is that making a broadcast quality recording in a decent home studio still takes a lot of work. Sometimes work that demands more time and effort than I have available, since personally I have to run another business, go fishing, hang out on the beach, play gigs, ... oh yeah.... I have a wife and kids too..... somewhere??? Any way, what I've found from my submissions for film tv that I produced myself is that I need to be more discerning as to what is an acceptable take... I get returned for the "spots" peppered in the recordings where the guitars dropped out of tune, the vocal went pitchy, the bass lost beat with the drum because of being to "filly"... or the drum programs....(if you don't use a live drummer) sound stiff or not lively..... Again, for me, just factor of time spent. My goals have always been to improve my recordings to broadcast level while reducing the amount of time it takes to lay it all down and mix it..... that requires more than just a few months expertise.... of course, that is why you might consider delegating these functions and incurring the cost..... an ROI decision.My focus has been writing and recording demos for the Nashville market. Chits does the same, and it is very selective and competitive.... Again, my own approach is to make the demos cheap and keep throwing mud against the wall until something starts sticking... (this is actually the way the record business worked in the old old days...)... In the Nashville market, my assumption is that whatever song I do, if it goes to a major label artist, they are going to re-record anyway in a $3milliion studio with Nashville's best.... Don't discount what your friends and family say about your songs..... they're the ones that encouraged you enough to seek out places and opportunities like TAXi because your stuff has some good elements and potential They help the ego, but the industry professional feedback you get on your critiques will make you more than humble and sometimes discouraged which is part of the process of learning how to write songs where all the elements are there. and .... getting "there" may take some time to learn the ropes.....its the process of reaching full potential. I've found that kind of fan appreciation for my songs very helpful in times when I've been discouraged by my lack of forwards..... the other faction is the family member who is either apathetic, non-supportive, or even hostile toward your efforts and labeling it as pipe dream foolishness. They're important because they give you determination to reach the apex so you can look down at them and say.... "see... I told you I could do it... neh neh....."The other group is the forum members here.... especially when you want to rant about a reject.... they'll help you through the frustration part of this and keep you grounded in reality that this endeavor isn't a cakewalk..... Another lesson..... be prolific .... write as much and as often as you can, and really take a look at your old stuff and figure out why its not already a hit..... then borrow from old, get new ideas and keep on a constant cycle create produce submit evaluate.....rewrite re-record, resubmit..... kind of like a Deming approach. This is expensive at first, but the critique feedback knowledge gained is cumulative, and you will find your submission rate level off as you learn to discern better what is not ready or worthwhile submitting in the first place.....(like a song about a woman's time of the month....) Another aspect of this learning curve is getting to know the artists in your target market and songs they liked and recorded, who wrote them, how many songs those writers have on that artist's albums vs. other major artists.... get to know who's who...... and the Taxi listings that correspond. I think this is the next plateau I can reach for where I can see a listing for a particular artist, write specifically for it and have enough time to create produce, submit for a custom critique, get feedback, rewrite and rework into final and submit for that artist listing by the deadline..... I think this plateau is an "edge" because it puts you in the realm of writing current songs for current artists in the current market with current connecting themes...... these elements increase the chances of a forward... as opposed to submitting old songs as potential hits.... which is what I did in first starting out with Taxi..... That summarizes a lot of what I've also seen in the forum postings as well, though they are strictly my own views and other members might elaborate ..... or even call me on Code section B 4 (I) (c) (ii) that says I may actually be so full of **** the town I live in has been declared a disaster area......Good Luck to youArkJack

[jchitty]

I agree with AJ here, especially about the 'prolific' part....to get there, you must believe in yourself though. I wrote snippets of songs for years....but I never could finish a whole song because I'm not a musician, so I thought I couldn't do this sort of thing. Then in January of 2006, I was playing around one day, and I finally finished a song. From then on, it was like a floodgate had opened...I've written 96 songs (almost a 100 as I always say) over the past year and a half. I started taking guitar lessons, and I'm now working toward a goal. I have a daily regimen. I work on at least one song a week....my goal is to have at least 110 or 120 songs by the end of the year. If you don't use the songwriting muscle, you'll lose it, I think.And I figure if I create as many darts to hit the target as I can, then I'll finally hit the mark one day.My biggest drawback is that I can't make my own demoes....this leaves me anxious sometimes.....here I have all these songs just pouring out with no way to make them....so I have to rely on what I only have demoed to pitch...and it's expensive making professional demoes sometimes, but well worth it. I've made about 7 demoes now, but they are some of my first songs, and by far, not my best stuff even though people seem to like them. I have been collaborating with one TAXI member, and we're now co-writing and doing some stuff together, so that gives me hope. Gotta have hope above all else.I go without all those pretty little baubles that we women love just to make my music....I don't think I've bought a nice outfit in two years, but it's worth it. Not that I'm starving, I can put food on my table, but I'm much more cautious with my funds than I used to be....every dollar I save goes toward making more demoes.I say DREAM BIG. Write and pitch like hell and make sure every song you have demoed sounds its absolute best.

[clonsberry]

Wow! Thanks, ArkJack. I think I just learned more than I did in the last two years.I was listening to something the other day about how many rejections Col. Sanders got at first. And how hard it was to sell the idea of post-it notes. I'm ready for a lot of rejection before I start letting it get to me. And I'm not expecting overnight success. Actually, I'm holding dearly to the thought that what doesn't kill us makes us stronger. One thing I learned as a performer, you'll never make everyone happy. But I'll use every rejection I get to push that number up and get better at what I do.In the meantime, I'll grab every word of wisdom I can from people who have been doing this longer than I have.. which at this point.. is pretty much everyone

[liamkelly]

Quote:Quote:I have just joined Taxi and although I have been trying my best to scroll through (most of) the forum (headers) to avoid placing a duplicate query - it could take me the better part of the rest of my life... I am 'just' a songwriter and therefore make basic demo recordings of my songs to be uploaded. Although I definitely don't sing 'out of tune', I certainly don't have perfect pitch either. Could this 'imperfection' be a disadvantage when submitting a demo to a listing for songs?Also,when I upload songs to Taxi - are these songs evaluated in the same way (vocally) than those for aspiring recording artists?Welcome! In general, you need at lease a half-decent demo to pitch your songs. If you are pitching for film/TV use, the recordings have to be "master quality" which means they sound close to or good enough to play on the radio. For these opportunities, they want your track "as-is", there is no re-recording. If you want to pitch your songs for other artists, the requirements are less stringent, but you need, at the minimum, a very clean and on-pitch vocal with a guitar or piano. A better demo is a big advantage as long as it is not overdone in a way that is distracting, takes away from the vocal/lyrics, etc. With the advent of affordable home studio technology, the competition is very stiff and it is getting harder for someone to listen to your rough demo when they can listen to a better one.One suggestion is to use outside songwriter demo services. These are not inexpensive, so first get a lot of feedback on your song before investing the money. You said you already joined TAXI so you can get a custom critique for $10. You can also get critiques on your song (the song itself) using a number of services such as John Braheny's at www.johnbraheny.com ... If you post a song somewhere (any free site that lets you upload songs) where folks on this forum can hear it, many will give you feedback. It takes a bit of "baring your soul", but many of us do it... Good luck! CaseyHi BBRegarding what Casey said about demo services - I have just left Johannesburg after 16 years living there and have worked with a fair amount of musicians there. If you're looking for help with a demo I'd be happy to give you a few contacts. If you're in Jo'burg that is. If not - no problem.I'm not sure what you mean by not having perfect pitch. If the demo (however simple it is) has out of tune vocals, that is not going to do you any good. If the pitch is fine but the texture is not great then it probably depends which listings you are aiming for. The country and pop listings have a tremendously high bar and it would do you no harm if the demo showed the melodic range the singer was expected to cover in the track, spacings, the harmonies and bvs etc. While a simple piano and vocal can sell a song to these listings, the track really would have to be very, very good. And I think the vocal would have to be more than average.But I know little!Liamwww.myspace.com/liamkellymusic

[arkjack]

My voice had its better years..... and though I don't think it is bad.... it is hard work to get a decent take from my vocals without punch in and even then, it still gets pitchy. Thant being said, I want to comment on liam's post about texture. I had tried an outside singer for a song one time, and even though it was near perfect pitch, and a nice voice, there was much less energy and emotion conveyed and I wound up scrapping the takes in favor of my own. Sometimes I get a critique that comments that even though the voice is rough on the edges it still helps to sell the song because it has feeling.... feeling, energy, and emotion are elements that should not be ignored. ArkJack