pushing my boundaries... "The Unknown"

[crystallions]

As I wrote in my Epic Forward thread I have decided to push my boundaries forward and upward and sideways... I do not only want to get better in the orchestral area but would like to expand into new genres as well. So I wrote something that sounds a little different from what I usually do. The piece is called "The Unknown".Here are my questions...1. Which genre is this? (which kind of listings would it fit for?)2. Any mixing advice?3. Any advice on the composition itself?The Unknownwww.taxi.com/lydialashton~ LydiaPS. And to all of you who gave me such great advice for Nick's Theme - I have not forgotten - I just haven't had the time to do it yet...

[rld]

Hi Lydia,I took a listen and couldn't help imagining a scene from C.S.I.This would fit perfectly for a cue where they do various experiments in the lab on gooey, decomposing body parts.

[t4mh]

Quite the visonary and creative piece! I won't pretend to give advice. Keep kickin butt!

[digidog]

A little confused on the dynamics. You seem use velocity to bring your mood in. That's fine, but I found myself having to turn up the peice in the beginning. At first I was going to suggest a decent master for the piece, but then towards the very end I could hear the final dynamics were quite good. But it was at the final 2 seconds.What I might do is choose your instrumentation carefully, build with your selection of instruments rather than the volume of the entire thing. Use a wet reverb wisely as well as appropriate filters (in real time, expand your frequencies as you go along) in the beginning and I think you'll find this to be quite emotional.

[crystallions]

RLD - I had not thought about something like that. Now I have to listen to it and imagine the scenario you described... t4mh - Thanks! digidog - I think I know what you are saying with having to chase the dynamics. What you are after is more like you hear when you listen to a radio show - where it is obvious whether the speaker whisper or scream but you don't have to chase the volume up and down - it stays pretty equal (correct me if I am misunderstanding you).What I am not sure about is how to create that feeling. The feeling of going from a whisper to a scream without the actual volume changing. I would love to learn though. I am pretty new at mixing so you will have to explain to me again... Use wet reverb and filters in the beginning and expand frequencies as I go along? What are filters? (and you are absolutely right - I use velocity a lot in creating my mixes. )

[jonathanm]

One thing that adds perceived volume without adding much total volume is boosting bass. A big bottom end around 100-250Hz will make things sound bigger and closer.Nice work on this track, Lydia.

[crystallions]

Feb 5, 2009, 1:54pm, jmeraz wrote:One thing that adds perceived volume without adding much total volume is boosting bass. A big bottom end around 100-250Hz will make things sound bigger and closer.Nice work on this track, Lydia.That makes sense. I'll try that. Thanks!

[stevebarden]

Lydia, what a very cool piece! I love the ending. Nice blend of electronica and orchestral. Definitely has that CSI element to it.Regarding dynamics, I believe that using velocity is the proper way to go, especially when you're using an orchestral library such as EWQLSO. The dynamics are programmed in to represent how a real player would play their instrument. Lower velocities play softer and higher velocities play louder. The only problem is that that once you commit to a velocity the volume level cannot change during the duration of the note. This is where expression (CC11) comes in to play. You can "draw" in the volume/dynamic changes.Being that this is a hybrid of electronica and orchestral it wouldn't hurt to compress the final mix so that the dynamics are more evened out. In purely orchestral music I would never do that because you want those really quiet moments to be very different from the loud passages. For this piece you can imply greater dynamics by introducing more agressive instruments, particularly in the percussion area.Just my opinion.Steve

[southpaw]

Hi Lydia, nice little tune. I liked the build and the drum part was great. Def. could hear it as a CSI type of bed. I understand what you are trying to do with a constant buildup... But it sounds drowned out and way too distant for the first half of the track. Id bring everything up front a bit. Honestly i would re-mix this one, which shouldnt take too long because you have the idea down and arranged in an attractive and pleasing way, but i just dont think it would cut it as is, jmho. Some basic mix sugg's: Start with the kick drum, give 'er a little punch at around 110hz and carve a prominant place for it. Next bass is the big one and needs a distinct presence in the 'sub-bass' ocatave, as well as at the bottom end because i couldnt even hear if there was bass.. You want the relationship between the two to be cohesive but not overlapping each others space. Might try working on imaging your pad parts in the stereo field and adding some ear candy such as 'automating panning, eq sweeps, etc. all those goodies. By the way, easy... on the reverb. and remember compression is not against the law either, i understand orchestral stuff has a greater emphasis on dynamics, but the whole mix needs to come up in volume. There is a balance in there between volume and dynamics, i think its a tricky line to find but can be done. Automation is your friend! Layering instruments is another great way to build up parts.Limiters, compressors, gain plugs, saturation plugs, phychoacoustic enhancers, are all fair game and are somethings that will help boost a signal as long as you are modest with the settings, and let your ears be the judge, not your eyes. If you dont have the means to replace the midi orchestral parts with realistic samples, then my advice would be to start thinking as creatively with your production, as you do with your composing. You will find neat things and techniques just trying different things, and noting the result. Bottom line you have a cool piece and a nice sketch imo, but im not sure it would be able to compete at a professional level without some more mix work. (Again, JMHO)These are a few general ideas, hope it helps.Jamie

[crystallions]

Steve and Jamie - Thank you for taking the time to listen and for all of your advice. I appreciate it greatly!Now I am having major growing pains... Here is what I have learned today...1. Either I need to learn to tweak the sounds in my K2000 and QSR modules or invest in something like Omnisphere (that I have already tried and know how to work with). Jamie mentioned using less reverb - and I haven't added any. It was all on the sounds from the beginning... At this point I have no idea how to take it off. I tried to find the manuals online but have had no luck so far. 2. What I thought was amazingly different from what I normally do is really a mix of what I normally do and electronica. At least that is a half step sideways... right? 3. CC11 is expression in EW... I am going to have to ask you more about that Steve...4. Much of Jamie's post seemed as if it was written in a language I don't understand yet... Which means that it is time to start reading that book about mixing that has been laying on the floor in my office for 6 months... I remember reading Big Blue's post saying that he spent about 3 months getting his production chops up to match his compositional chops. I have decided to do the same thing. I do NOT look forward to it (I love composing - hate the mixing part) but maybe I will start liking it once I learn what you can do to make things sound good...I am now going to read your advices again with the mixing book beside me. (like using a dictionary...) Thank you all for your patience and willingness to share your knowledge. ~ Lydia