Rise Above w/Lee Johnson (***REVISED Jan 20)

deantaylor · Post by **deantaylor** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 11:08 pm

Lee updated this on 1-20-09 from your first set of comments. THANKS! Here is what he changed:1. less lead guitar overall...it was too loud 2. less room on drums 3. clarified kick and bass hopefully...kick should whack and bass should thump 4. vocal pitch ... need a time spot if possible (Vince?) ... I can clean these up more.5. harp muted at bridge and since lead guit is less at end we hear the harp there better too.Please let us know how it sounds to you now:http://soundclick.com/share?songid=7237628lyric is available there, tooThanks,Dean and Lee

davekershaw · Post by **davekershaw** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 12:05 am

Good job Dean and Lee.Thought Neil Young joined you at one point!Nice overall sound.Dave.

ideascapes · Post by **ideascapes** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 12:30 am

Dean and Lee,Mix sounds better! Minor pitchiness I heard (in harmony vocal, I think): - "clouds" and "where", :44 - "grow"? 1:57 - "us"? 2:16I started putting question marks because the pointer on the pop-up player that's supposed to follow the song progress got stuck at around :25, so I couldn't easily replay the passages that I thought were "off". In any case, they were minor and I was listening real hard, so I might have been imagining things.I'd probably consider singing a 3rd part harmony in some of these places--might be cool.Vince

deantaylor · Post by **deantaylor** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 4:55 am

Dave, Thanks for the feedback. Neil is scheduled to sing back up on our final version. lolVince, we really appreciate the second listen. Yep, earlier today I caught that something was a bit off with 'us' at 2:15, so you are probably right about the others, too. Good ears!!! We'll give it a listen and fix it up.Dean

leejohnson · Post by **leejohnson** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 6:04 am

Hi,Thanks ideascapes, it makes it nice and simple for me when you list specific sections I need to look at for vocal pitch...I will go back and do isolation listening overall and also fix those sections...thanks everyone...give us more ideas if anything else sticks out...We want a totally glitch free recording, a universal lyric that paints a nice picture of overcoming difficulty, but without getting TOO specific...ie...something that would fit a variety of situations/scenes for Film/TV. PRODUCTION QUESTION: Do you think once vocal pitch is fixed, we will need a mastering job...I am doing some "poor mans" mastering...ie 2-3 db EQ boost at 12k and 8k and 80k, light compression ie 2:1, limiter set so threshold is low enough it only gives 2-3 db of limiting on loudest parts...this way I get about 2-3 db of boost on the whole thing to keep up with modern recordings...and I hope overall it still has some natural feel ie hoping it doesn't come off as if I squashed the $%&* out of it. I read about these methods in Recording Mag and also from Rob Chiarelli at this recent Road Rally...I'm sort of combining the 2 methods, as I don't have the venerable C2 and L2 pieces of gear Rob likes...but got the idea of what he meant and the same principals should apply, I think!ThanksLee

deantaylor · Post by **deantaylor** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 1:39 pm

Lee fixed the pitch problems found by Vince and touched up a few other things. I uploaded the new mix. It is playing at the link in my first post.

ideascapes · Post by **ideascapes** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 3:11 pm

Lee,Pro mastering almost always beats home mastering, but I also do it myself. Hard to say without listening in the room with you (how neutral is your mastering room, by the way?), but I'll pass on a few things: - I've become very stingy with EQ in mastering stage--I try to limit to 2 db or less movements, unless very low or very high freqs - I almost always do a low shelf cut below 80 Hz - The compression settings and rules you're using are reasonable - If you give a 2-3 dB boost at 80 kHz (as you stated), even dogs won't noticeVince

leejohnson · Post by **leejohnson** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 6:46 am

Hey Vince,Thanks for the help. I am aware of benefits of pro mastering, with tuned rooms, pro gear, and fresh ears etc...for me, there is often the discrepancy of the ideal situation, and what is reality!!!I am working on trying to get my home recordings up to par for Film TV Listings...since many of these come up quickly, I want to be able to turn things around quickly and reliably, without the cost and wait time of pro mastering...if its possible. Thanks for the tips!!! Very helpful!!! Do you always hire pro mastering, or do you do it yourself, or some combo? BestLee

ideascapes · Post by **ideascapes** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 1:32 am

Lee,I've never paid for pro mastering, but some of the libraries I have deals with ask me to deliver my mixes unmastered as they prefer to use their own studios. Since I record songs one at a time and haven't released them myself as a collection/album, I also haven't had to worry about making a group of songs sound similar in tone/volume.I'd also say that as I've gotten better at recording/engineering, my songs seem to need less in the mastering stage anyway.Bottom line is, you can definitely get TV/film/library deals without pro mastering, but I'd recommend you at least get some pro opinions before submitting in case you're missing something. It always helps to A/B compare your song to a pro mix in that genre you're pitching.Vince

billg · Post by **billg** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 8:56 am

hey guys, I've paid for pro mastering many times. As with everything else sometimes it helped a lot and other times when compared with my poorman's job I couldn't tell the difference (nor could anyone else!). Just be sure to keep a "clean" mix without anything on it & you'll be ok. Some things that help me;1. try to get the mix in shape by cutting frequencies instead of boosting.2. Try to keep compression at no more than 3:1 and maintain at least a 3db dynamic range.3. Only limit the very "peaks" with a peak limiter.I try to follow those rules and I'm able to get a competitive volume without too much damage. I think (for me) the biggest culprit is eq boosting on the master buss. You should try to fix this kind of stuff on the individual channels and boost on the master only as a last resort. Unless of course your a pro with a bunch of expensive gear!Just now listening to your mix and I don't think you need the boost at 80k . . . also you need to cut the eq a bit on the bass that brings out what sounds like "pick" sound and then try a boost at around 100-125 (on the bass). There's a sweet spot in there that usually really makes the bass guitar smooth. The bass now sounds like it has a lot of definition but not a lot of low-end warmth. of course this is just my 2 cents-

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Re: Rise Above w/Lee Johnson (***REVISED Jan 20)

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