Live Regis and Kelly theme song

[kitz]

OK guys,We had a bit of a discussion regarding this yesterday...I hate to beat a dead horse but...Let me be more specific...Many of you have probably heard about this song contest for the Live Regis and Kelly theme song.Here's the link:http://bventertainment.go.com/tv/buenav ... ex.htmlThe winner gets 100 grand. Now I don't expect to win but would like to try. I've spent the week editing and mixing a tune for this entry but when I went to submit I read the "terms of use" and began to backpedal. It appears to me that anyone submitting is giving their work to the Live Regis and Kelly Show - no check that - the entire Disney network to be used in any way they want in perpituity with no compensation or acknowledgement even if they don't win the grand prize.Is that how you read this?? Would you submit based on these terms of use? From what I read here it appears that Regis and Kathy would own the rights for every song SUBMITTED. Am I going nuts here? How can that be legal.Kitz

[andreh]

I don't see anything in the contract about Disney. Here's where I'm taken when I click through the entry process:http://bventertainment.go.com/tv/buenav ... les.htmlIn this contract, the wording states that all rights will be assigned to ABC/WAB-TV once the winner is chosen, but before that it merely requires that entries are free from other publishing/ownership obligations.I wouldn't be afraid to enter this contest based on its contract wording. In fact, I wish I'd heard about it sooner! It's totally cool that they allow you to score your piece to their actual opening video, but it's a little weird that they're calling it a "theme song" when no lyrics are allowed...André

[mazz]

Andre,If you submit online you have to register first. A link to the terms of use become available after you're registered and that's where the Disney thing comes in. Apparently they own Regis and Kelly. Hell, they can own me too if they pick my piece!! If that puppy plays everyday for a few years, that'd be OK by me. Those ASCAP checks will be a nice addition to the ol' mazz-account. Mazz

[mojobone]

AH-Ha! Is there a light bulb over my head? If I'm reading those terms right, Disney gets to perform, modify and make derivative works from the submissions, whether they are the winning submission or not. Not sure how that plays out in practice, but I suspect the language is there mainly to discourage infringement lawsuits.For the winner, it's a buyout:"Further details, representations and obligations regarding entrants rights to the Materials, including that the winning music/recording will be considered a “work for hire” for the Program granting the program all right, title and interests (including copyright) in the music/recording, are described in further detail in a release the winner must sign and return to the Program in order to claim the Prize."

[Casey H]

Dec 5, 2008, 2:52am, mazz wrote:If you submit online you have to register first. A link to the terms of use become available after you're registered and that's where the Disney thing comes in. Apparently they own Regis and Kelly. Hell, they can own me too if they pick my piece!! If that puppy plays everyday for a few years, that'd be OK by me. Those ASCAP checks will be a nice addition to the ol' mazz-account.MazzThat's how most people should think of it! The absolute right attitude!! Of course, you should carefully consider what you are signing... Always the case... If you are submitting something that you have in your collection and have high hopes for elsewhere, that is one thing--- since the odds of winning the R & K thing are very low, you MIGHT reconsider. However, if you write something specifically for this, just think about the huge upside of those ASCAP (or other PRO) checks and stop quibbling about the other stuff.Mazz-- I visualize you and Winston dancing with Kelly after they hand you that check! Casey

[davewalton]

Dec 5, 2008, 5:02am, mojobone wrote:Umm, "work for hire" means no royalty checks. Ever. No, no, no... Maybe Matto can expand on this but work-for-hire is a standard arrangement for writing music for tv and film... doesn't have anything to do with getting or not getting royalties.The "Oprah" thing is a work-for-hire. Right at the top of my last contract... "Tenth Addendum To Work-For-Hire Agreement". We all get royalties, etc.

[Casey H]

Dec 5, 2008, 5:02am, mojobone wrote:Umm, "work for hire" means no royalty checks.I'm not sure that's always the case although I have not looked at this particular contract. There are folks right here who do "work-for-hire" for a major TV production company and they DO get the writer's share of performance royalties. I believe it varies from situation to situation. Those who are in the situation can answer better than I can but that's my understanding.This thread is interesting to me because I've seen the same theme on other threads too. People are adamant about what they will or won't do to get their music placed as far as giving up publishing, etc. (Not saying THIS Disney thing is a good deal, don't know).Not about this opp: If you already have a fair amount of success as far as placements, an income stream, etc. you might be in a position to take a hard line on what you'll do. What I often see are people who have music on their shelf and no placements saying things like "I'll never give up my publishing" or "I'll never give up the publisher's share"... Well, that's all well and good but those CD's can get mighty dusty while you hold on to 100% of nothing. In reality, the way this business works is most often, 50% of revenue goes to a library or publisher. They serve a valuable function and without them you might not get anywhere. (not saying 'impossible')... My strong suggestion to many is consider 50% of something over 100% of nothing. You can scream about changing the world, but that dust on the CD's will build a thicker layer.An exception could be if you are total DIY indie, handling every aspect of the production and selling of you music on your own. It you are making money selling CD's or songs on iTunes, etc. and playing gigs, that's different.I once heard of someone refusing to take a job interview because he'd have to buy some nicer clothes to wear for the interview (he did have the money- it was 'principle')... Maybe the analogy isn't perfect but his staying home with no paycheck rather than buying some clothes is similar in my mind to refusing to give up publishing revenue for music income. To the best of my knowledge, his stance still hasn't changed the way the business world works... Raggy jeans still don't usually land you the job. CaseyPS Looks like Dave W chimed in with some info on his W-F-H's as I was typing...

[mojobone]

Dec 5, 2008, 5:22am, davewalton wrote:Dec 5, 2008, 5:02am, mojobone wrote:Umm, "work for hire" means no royalty checks. Ever. No, no, no... Maybe Matto can expand on this but work-for-hire is a standard arrangement for writing music for tv and film... doesn't have anything to do with getting or not getting royalties.The "Oprah" thing is a work-for-hire. Right at the top of my last contract... "Tenth Addendum To Work-For-Hire Agreement". We all get royalties, etc. Normally, I'd bow to your superior experience, Dave, but this is a contest and NOT the standard arrangement; I'm aware that "work-for-hire" doesn't usually mean no royalties, but in this case, I think it might. There are a couple of different pages I looked at; one appears to cover what the Mouse can do with submissions to their websites (plural), another deals specifically with Buena Vista Entertainment and the Regis & Kelly theme contest; as I read the language, it sounds like a buyout, but hey, what do I know? I'm not a lawyer, nor do I sleep next to one.;D

[Casey H]

Dec 5, 2008, 5:54am, mojobone wrote: I'm not a lawyer, nor do I sleep next to one. Best way to cut down on those legal expenses!!

[davewalton]

Dec 5, 2008, 5:54am, mojobone wrote:Normally, I'd bow to your superior experience, Dave, but this is a contest and NOT the standard arrangement; I'm aware that "work-for-hire" doesn't usually mean no royalties, but in this case, I think it might. There are a couple of different pages I looked at; one appears to cover what the Mouse can do with submissions to their websites (plural), another deals specifically with Buena Vista Entertainment and the Regis & Kelly theme contest; as I read the language, it sounds like a buyout, but hey, what do I know? I'm not a lawyer, nor do I sleep next to one.;DWell, in that case you leave me no other choice than to say... http://taxi.proboards27.com/index.cgi?b ... e=1#106250