NOW for a Bit of Beethoven

[davewalton]

Dec 4, 2008, 4:35am, ideascapes wrote:Georgie, I'm listening on laptop speakers, so can't give you detailed comments. Overall sound was pretty good here. I did hear several times when the strings didn't seem to have the needed "attack"--they lagged what my ears expected for the note starts. Legato when it seemed marcato was called for.Are you using the same sample(s) throughout?VinceI would agree with Vince. It's very good but to get picky, it's missing the expected immediacy that comes with the short note articulations. I don't always do this in practice, but essentially if I divide up each part into three sub-parts, one for expressive articulation, one for legato articulation, one for short articulation that covers most situations. If I start with three copies and then start removing selective notes from the articulations I don't want to hear, that's easier than building it up the other way. For example, on the last note of a phrase, I would probably delete the short articulation note and maybe the legato note too, just leaving the expressive note. For the notes that need immediate impact, I'd probably delete the expressive articulation note, just leaving the short and legato notes to play together or maybe just leaving the legato note. It's a system that sounds good but would horrify any orchestrator as there are doubled up notes everywhere. In reality, it does't come out sounding doubled but seems to give a lot more expression and realism to our orchestras.It can get a little messy and I think that the Play version of EWQL is a step towards dealing with those issue. Although I do have the Play version, it's new enough to me that I'm still doing it "old school" for the moment.HTH,Dave

[georginasaint]

Hi Dave, many thanks for your detailed response, it's great! Mazz has taught me some of this stuff but I'm still learning and getting used to doing it this way. I also played around with CC#7 & CC#11 with this but I have no idea what I'm doing really. I realize that my earlier post isn't actually correct, it's not only one articulation on this recording, it's 4, but they are nearly all playing everything all through (tho I recorded each separately, rather than copy the first recording). Anyway, thanks for your thoughtful post... I will keep working and post again when I feel it's advanced somewhat. Georgie

[aldicicco]

Hi Georgie - First off, let me apologize for calling you George in a previous post.You happened to pick one of my all time favorites from Ludwig. Good choice!To me, the most effective part was the second verse when the strings were supporting the flute.Here's what I might try - 1. Keep the strings under the melody. IMHO, the string expression isn't quite convincing enough for the lead.2. Choose two instruments for the lead, i.e. flute for verse one and oboe for verse two.3. For verse three, create a little counterpoint or harmony between these two woodwinds. Perhaps one voice could do the broken chord left hand from the last repeat in the piano score.You've already taken a creative turn with this piece (strings and three continuous verses), so it might be effective to take it a step further. What do you think?Best of luck with this piece and thank you for sharing this.Best wishes,Al

[georginasaint]

Al, thanks for your response. Actually I like being called George and that automatically leads to gender confusion!!!Thanks for your thoughts on this piece. Now you say about the strings not being strong enough to carry the tune, I realize that I was kind of aware of this and I need to address it. I so want it to be on big sweeping strings that I was a bit stuck in that idea. It's incredible how posting a tune on this forum can just confirm something lurking at the back of my mind and make me think "Of course!" I spent hours last night using different articulations but whatever I do I don't seem to be able to get it right. So I like the idea of putting a woodwind instrument over the top. Thanks for your help! Now I'll just ask my wife to fetch me a beer ... ha ha ha. Georgie

[heinsite]

hi georgie!!what a nice change from what we hear, i love it, but i love this beethoven piece anyway.one suggestion i have listening on my cans, (not ON the can...LOL) is the oboe solo (or clarinet?) could be more up front when it comes in, but be careful, as some of the high notes seem to me crappy ears to be just a BIT HOT already in that section, and later when the strings come in after that, (right before the end...) i'd add a bit more dynamic instrumentation to end it...but hell, what do i know? just my opinion....but i love it.personally though, i'm a CHY KOV SKY fan, (don't have spell check on this fast reply thing i use...sorry, not making fun of a genius...) his pathetique #6 in my opinion is one of the most beautiful and INTERESTING pieces of music, (you're i'm sure familiar...actually PIECES of music, as there's so much happening in that symphony..)anyway, nice job, that's my 1 cent's worth...the best,warren

[georginasaint]

Hi Warren, thanks for your 2 cents (inflation you know). I'm glad you're a classic fan, I'm sure there aren't too many on these boards, more leaning towards R&R etc. I'm a real Beethoven girl - he saw me through my teen years very well - when I'd get emotional I'd go and pound out the Pathetique or the Moonlight. I'm hoping to get round to doing some Debusy for this listing too. I think you're spot on with your response to my version here - it's an oboe but I think it doesn't sound true all the time and definately the last section needs some help.I'll get on to it and post again when I feel it's ready. Watch this space....Georgie

[heinsite]

hey georgie girl!!you've made my day!! whenever (and all too rare) somebody, hell even my wife, says i'm spot on, i look down at my shirt for the spot!! inflation, very good line too...i'm sure with all the good folks above, we'll be listening for your re-entry on this...again, nice job, just a bit of polish, and presto!man i now know ANOTHER real musician, there are so many here in so many genres, it's staggering....i'm unfortunately NOT one of them, musical yeah, but not the least bit a musician--i'm more like a crappy denny's cook--i always hate it when one of the waitresses or waiters say, "i'll ask the chef..." when he was the dishwasher last week!! ....geeze...LOL...you now know what i did through college--a century ago....xoxoxoall the best,wh

[mazz]

Hi Georgie,Nice interpretation of this lovely piece. I used to play this movement all the time, I just love it, it has such emotion to it.Here's some orchestration ideas:1. Use your woodwinds! Doubling the first melody (the violas?) with a bassoon would really make it stand out in the accompaniment. Right now the sounds are too similar and the melody doesn't sound distinctive enough for my ears.2. The clarinet (or you said it was an oboe, I think a lonely clarinet would be great here) sounds nice. On the second half of the phrase, add an oboe and maybe even harmonize the melody with the oboe playing the melody and the clarinet a 6th below. IMO it's OK to take liberties with this kind of stuff because the melodies are so incredibly written it's pretty hard to mess them up. Besides, Ludwig isn't going to care! 3. Put a flute an octave above the violins. Flute doubling the violins is a fabulous sound and really makes the strings sing. An oboe in unison with the strings and a flute up an octave would really sound beautiful. The composite sound of the woodwinds and strings, when mixed right, is really transparent and alive (and is in the style of the period).4. For the triplet accompaniment, have the bassoons and the clarinets playing the figures along with the strings and divide the strings up so the basses play the bass note, the cellos the next couple of notes and the violas the next. The basses could even play pizz, which would add a nice rhythmic point to the whole thing near the end.5. Use tempo fluctuations like you would if you were playing the piano. You can put them in after you've got everything recorded and if you do it right, it will really add some nice expression to the whole thing.You're on the right track, just push the envelope a bit. There's no need to stick 100% to the piano voicings, spread them out if it sounds better, harmonize the melody if you want, double at the octave. Sounds good!!Mazz

[georginasaint]

Mazz, thanks for these wonderful ideas. As usual, I am grateful for your input and keen to try your ideas. As you know who says... I'll be back...Georgie

[georginasaint]

Oh I think you are right - I think it's a clarinet playing - ha ha!!! I can't remember what I did now. I've been working on an original piece for the "inspiring and uplifting" listing and so now I need to get back to Ludwig...Heinsite - I LOVE DENNY's. When I got to the hotel in LA I was THRILLED to see there was one right across the road! I have so many happy memories of Denny's upon my travels. We don't have them in the UK. The food was DREADFUL, but nobody goes to Denny's for good food, right? Wear that badge with PRIDE!!!!!!!Georgie