Royalty free libraries

[slideboardouts]

Sept 15, 2008, 7:20pm, jude3 wrote:Sept 15, 2008, 7:00pm, mazz wrote: The confusion comes in when you talk about Performance Royalties which are paid by the PROs (ASCAP, BMI, etc.). MazzOk. So if they use our music in, let's say a TV commercial, or radio add, then is that not a performance?These companies as I understand them claim music purchased through them could be used for that purpose royalty free.Yes it is a performance, and you would still get royalties from your PRO as well as the one time license fee from the buy out library.Here is how I understand it:Lets say a producer licensed one of your compositions from a buyout library. He paid 100 bucks for it. If it is a 50/50 deal, then you would get $50. That producer can then use that piece of music as much as he wants in TV shows, movies, commercials etc. as long as it is included in the contract, and he won't ever have to pay that 100 bucks to the library ever again (and you won't collect any more $50 bills from the library). However, every time that piece is broadcasted, you will collect performance royalties from your PRO (ASCAP, BMI, etc.). The money you get from your PRO does not come out of the pocket of the show, commercial, etc. That generally comes from a bunch of various sources that I believe Mazz listed in his previous post. Lets say a producer licensed that same song from a "needle drop" library. He paid 100 bucks to use it in a TV show for a skateboarding scene. 50/50 deal you pocket $50. Well, this producer decides that he wants to use that same piece for a BMX scene...he has to pay another $100 and you get another $50. Every time the "needle" drops, the producer has to pay a separate license fee to the library. The royalties from your PRO are unaffected by the type of library your song is signed with. If one of your tracks gets played, you get paid by your PRO...the library and the shows producer have nothing to do with that money (aside from the producer having to fill out a cue sheet). Now, how your PRO determines how much you get paid for any given piece of music is a whole 'nother can of worms Thats the best I could do with the little bit of knowledge I have. HTH.-Steve

[cyndy]

Sept 15, 2008, 6:26pm, jude3 wrote:You would have to have a crap load of tunes in a crap load of libraries to make any decent money right?Hey Jude,(LOL ... I've wanted to post something to one of your threads just so I could say that !!)No... Seriously.... (well, maybe not)....I just wanted to say I got a huge kick out of the wording you used there. Sounds like something we would have said in Oklahoma. Thanks for the laugh!!

[slideboardouts]

Sept 15, 2008, 9:00pm, cyndy wrote:Sept 15, 2008, 6:26pm, jude3 wrote:You would have to have a crap load of tunes in a crap load of libraries to make any decent money right?Hey Jude,(LOL ... I've wanted to post something to one of your threads just so I could say that !!)No... Seriously.... (well, maybe not)....I just wanted to say I got a huge kick out of the wording you used there. Sounds like something we would have said in Oklahoma. Thanks for the laugh!!lol On the crap load of tunes in a crap load of libraries thing...yeah thats pretty much the gist of if no matter what what kind of libraries you are working with. It seems like I've heard that 200 cues signed to various libraries is kind of the "magic" number where you can expect to make a decent living off of library music. Of course, your mileage may vary.-Steve

[jude3]

Sept 15, 2008, 8:56pm, slideboardouts wrote:Sept 15, 2008, 7:20pm, jude3 wrote:Ok. So if they use our music in, let's say a TV commercial, or radio add, then is that not a performance?These companies as I understand them claim music purchased through them could be used for that purpose royalty free.Yes it is a performance, and you would still get royalties from your PRO as well as the one time license fee from the buy out library.Here is how I understand it:Lets say a producer licensed one of your compositions from a buyout library. He paid 100 bucks for it. If it is a 50/50 deal, then you would get $50. That producer can then use that piece of music as much as he wants in TV shows, movies, commercials etc. as long as it is included in the contract, and he won't ever have to pay that 100 bucks to the library ever again (and you won't collect any more $50 bills from the library). However, every time that piece is broadcasted, you will collect performance royalties from your PRO (ASCAP, BMI, etc.). The money you get from your PRO does not come out of the pocket of the show, commercial, etc. That generally comes from a bunch of various sources that I believe Mazz listed in his previous post. Lets say a producer licensed that same song from a "needle drop" library. He paid 100 bucks to use it in a TV show for a skateboarding scene. 50/50 deal you pocket $50. Well, this producer decides that he wants to use that same piece for a BMX scene...he has to pay another $100 and you get another $50. Every time the "needle" drops, the producer has to pay a separate license fee to the library. The royalties from your PRO are unaffected by the type of library your song is signed with. If one of your tracks gets played, you get paid by your PRO...the library and the shows producer have nothing to do with that money (aside from the producer having to fill out a cue sheet). Now, how your PRO determines how much you get paid for any given piece of music is a whole 'nother can of worms Thats the best I could do with the little bit of knowledge I have. HTH.-Steve I appreciate your explanations here, however you are explaining how normal royalties work. I already know that. I was not asking for an explanation of that. Or did I mis understand you?I posted an actual contract of what I was asking about. That contract seems to indicate a "royalty free" purchase where no royalties are paid out ever after the purchase no matter where the song goes.Am I missing something?

[jude3]

Sept 15, 2008, 9:00pm, cyndy wrote: Hey Jude,Don't get me down.....

[slideboardouts]

I don't really see in the contract where its specifies that no royalties will be paid. It looks like a standard explanation of the library's license to me. Which line are you getting that from? Also, I really don't think that any library can control whether or not royalties are paid out by a PRO...unless they specified that they were taking both publisher AND writers share of the performance royalties then of course the writer would get nothing. In that case I would definitely not sign a deal.-Steve

[jude3]

Sept 18, 2008, 1:01pm, slideboardouts wrote:I don't really see in the contract where its specifies that no royalties will be paid. It looks like a standard explanation of the library's license to me. Which line are you getting that from? Also, I really don't think that any library can control whether or not royalties are paid out by a PRO...unless they specified that they were taking both publisher AND writers share of the performance royalties then of course the writer would get nothing. In that case I would definitely not sign a deal.-SteveSo then what does the term "royalty free" mean?Free from paying who a royalty?

[slideboardouts]

Sept 19, 2008, 6:42am, jude3 wrote:Sept 18, 2008, 1:01pm, slideboardouts wrote:I don't really see in the contract where its specifies that no royalties will be paid. It looks like a standard explanation of the library's license to me. Which line are you getting that from? Also, I really don't think that any library can control whether or not royalties are paid out by a PRO...unless they specified that they were taking both publisher AND writers share of the performance royalties then of course the writer would get nothing. In that case I would definitely not sign a deal.-SteveSo then what does the term "royalty free" mean?Free from paying who a royalty?In royalty free libraries the term "royalty free" seems to be more like a sync fee. The user only pays one time, usually for a whole CD of music, and they can then use it as much as they want without having to pay a sync fee every time. Royalties from ASCAP/BMI/etc. still apply.Check your PM's, I sent you a link that explains "royalty free" very well.-Steve

[jude3]

Sept 19, 2008, 7:23am, slideboardouts wrote:Sept 19, 2008, 6:42am, jude3 wrote:So then what does the term "royalty free" mean?Free from paying who a royalty?In royalty free libraries the term "royalty free" seems to be more like a sync fee. The user only pays one time, usually for a whole CD of music, and they can then use it as much as they want without having to pay a sync fee every time. Royalties from ASCAP/BMI/etc. still apply.Check your PM's, I sent you a link that explains "royalty free" very well.-SteveA sync fee is a royalty fee.aspirin anyone?

[zoom]

Jude.... if you really want a full view of the royalty spectrum, i would suggest you take a look at the user agreement your library gives its clients. I did for one of mine, and here's how it reads.....____ grants the non-exclusive rights to mechanically reproduce via synchronization to any, video, or audio productions, the musical and sound effects compositions contained within the _____ disc catalogue. The publishing rights to the music library are held and controlled by ______ Publishing. Ownership ( copyrights ) of the music remains with the actual composers. These CD's are licensed to you only. You have purchased the life-time rights to mechanically synchronize and use the compositions in your You have not purchased the right to claim ownership of the music. ......Licensee recognizes that this non-exclusive mechanical and synchronization license shall be limited to the lifetime of the licensee.So.... as the others stated... it's mechanical/sync royalty free, not performance... that still needs to be reported and paid to the PROs. So if your music is used in broadcast, someone is getting paid -- and you should be cut into that equation.Of course, if you have any questions about contracts and what everything means, you should see an entertainment lawyer before signing.