Throw Me a Bone here

[ephlat66]

Thanks for the input! And Vikki please, please, please don't feel defensive. I welcome your feedback more than most. Before I started this thread, I read the notes you referenced. They were helpful, I just need more help!(Also- since you bring it up - I hope to be a great songwriter someday. Being a great singer is not in my plans, because I think it's unlikely So the only tweaking I can do to the vocals is to have someone else do them. Not sure I have the cash for that, but if that's what's required then so be it.)

[matto]

Quote:First observation: Of all the people who've given feedback, only two have ever had the balls to post a link and brace themselves for very tough (albeit very necessary) criticism. In looking up the posts for all the others, the only thing they've ever done is criticize. So c'mon guys! Nut up and put yourself out there!Hmm Don, I don't quite follow your reasoning here. You've been posting your songs and asking for critiques, correct? So, that's what you're getting. As far as I could see you didn't specify that only people who also posted their own stuff could critique your material, so it seems a bit strange that you're accusing them of not having "balls" Some people like to post their material here for forum members to critique, others don't. Nothing wrong with either approach as far as I can see... Quote:Humminbird (whose beautiful music I LOVE!) commented that I should become familiar with the alas Rob Thomas, Kelly Clarkson). The song link is this: http://www.taximusic.com/song.php?song_ ... &stream=1I thought I was quite familiar with these artists. Now, you may not personally like this song or the way it's recorded (i've been told by numerous people to record "drier" - i'm cool with that - one of the things I need to know) but my question is, how is this structurally and stylistically different from, say, Rob Thomas' "Ever The Same"? The lyrics are syncopated similarly. It's a VCVCBC structure. The beat itself (percussion track) is quite similar to my ear. Humminbird said it was Dylan-esque folk-rock. Huh? I'm not arguing with that, I just don't understand. (And I decided to be complimented by being compared to Dylan )It can be difficult at first to hear all the things that define a genre, because there are so many of them...Lyrics, both what is said and how it is said, can be a defining characteristic.Intrumentation of course. Chord progression; or the way a melody is constructed.A singers voice and delivery.Production and arrangement, like what the individual instruments play and how they lock in together, and engineering, what they sound like and how dry or wet or dark or bright or in your face the overall recording is.It can be hard to keep track of all of those things at first. And the problem is that if just one of those elements is off by a significant amount, you're already off genre. If several are off you are way off, even if some elements match the style.In the case of your "a la Rob Thomas" song, you start off with a repeated I-IVmi6 progression. This particular progression sounds very dated as it is virtually never used in contemporary pop music. So right from the beginning you're off on an important element. That progression dictates an equally dated melody. Add to that the vocal delivery and voice itself, which are not contemporary, and the overly reverberated vocals and echoing background voice, and you've got more strikes lined up against you. The lyric also sounds unlike any modern pop song in it's tone...it's sounds like something Clapton might've written in the 70s perhaps.At this point the song is off genre in so many elements that it really sounds nothing like Rob Thomas...even though the structure and beat are in the ballpark.As far as your "a la Dierks Bentley" song, you say yourself it could only remotely be called country. Well, then it's probably not .Compare the content and tone of the lyrics. Dierks' song is full of vivid imagery describing a scene, yours is entirely different in tone, the only thing remotely "country" in your entire first verse is the word truck. The strumming pattern on your acoustic guitar track is unlike anything recorded in Nashville in the last 15 years at least, it sounds very old fashioned, but not even old fashioned country really, more like old Lou Reed or something.Another thing that sounds quite dated is that quick I-IV-I at the end of some of your sections.Your verse melody is very clearly chopped into very predictable same length phrases, almost like you had to first hear the chord before you could decide what to sing. This is very rarely done in today's melodies, pretty much in any style as a matter of fact. Melodies are more surprising or "sophisticated" in how they relate to the underlying chord changes in contemporary music in general.So once again, you've got so many element lined up against you that it doesn't even matter that your song's basic concept could work as a country song.So I think the key is to understand that there are many elements that come together to define a genre, and they all have to be "right" for a song to really fit that genre.I think the mistake just about all relative newcomers make (and yes you are not AT ALL alone in this ) is that they hear one or two element in their songs that sound like "country" or "modern rock" and therefore assume that's what the whole song must be.When in fact, in many cases, the song isn't in ANY clearly defined genre, and that's why you'd get conflicting opinions from listeners, depending on their own individual backgrounds.So my advice is to really listen in depth when you "research" musical genres. Listen to each element of a song and try to figure out what's happening. And, to really be able to define a style for yourself to the point where you can write something in it with confidence, you have to analyze LOTS of songs in that style and quite literally "inundate" yourself with it for a while.Hope this helps...it's up to you whether you want to consider it even though I haven't posted one of my own songs in response. matto

[johnnydean1]

I think some of your stuff sounds like Floyd and some just defies description.Feel free to review some of my stuff,just do a search for johnny bean.Your right about one thing,matto won't post his stuff here cause he might get his balls chewed off! AND his real name is Matto Horn and he can be found playing trumpet on the top of a mountain in Switzerland.

[Casey H]

The funny thing much more often is the opposite scenario. People come here and ask for their songs to be reviewed but don't reciprocate by reviewing other people's material. That is much more disappointing than what you mentioned.BTW, some very successful folks may be reluctant to post tracks here publicly because everything here turns up in Google searches and for professional and/or confidentiality reasons that can create a conflict for them. Casey

[matto]

Quote:Your right about one thing,matto won't post his stuff here cause he might get his balls chewed off! Just for the record, I wasn't attacking Don here, I just found that statement to be a little illogical. Nor did I think he was talking about me...maybe I should have? Btw Don, just FYI, the reason I rarely post music here to be critiqued by the forum membership is not because I'm afraid or because I think I'm somehow too good for it...it's because about 90% of the music I write in a given year is comissioned by various clients I work for, and so posting it here makes little sense since the only opinion that really matters is that of the person who's paying me to write it.matto

[Casey H]

Quote:When you hear people saying things like "I-IV-I" they are talking about chords and what number they are in the scale. So, for example, if your song was in the key of "A" then a I-IV-I progression would be "A-D-A." Also, depending on whether your song is in a minor or major key, each chord in the scale is usually specifically a minor or major chord. -SteveIn the key of C, it would be:I--II---III--IV--V--VI----VIIC-Dm--Em--F--G--Am---Bm7b5 It's easier in the key of C because there are no sharps or flats in any of the notes of the chords.I just started thinking this way recently after years of not... So, if this is incorrect, please let me know. Casey

[Casey H]

Quote:Casey,Not to sound like I'm nitpicking, the chord built on the 7th note of the scale is "half" diminished to accomodate the A natural in the C scale instead of the Ab in a B dim chord.This comes into play if the harmonized scale is extended to seventh chordsThis is my contribution to music theory for the month. ChuckYou should nitpick... I believe the right chord is Bm7b5 ... my error... Editing my post.Casey

[paults]

Bm7b5? Casey, are you SURE you are a guitarist?

[Casey H]

Quote:Bm7b5? Casey, are you SURE you are a guitarist? Yup, but I cheated on that one... I had to look it up to be sure... Not that I can't play that chord if I really have to.... It's pretty irrelvant to most of us, most of the time... Casey

[ephlat66]

Quote:Quote:When you hear people saying things like "I-IV-I" they are talking about chords and what number they are in the scale. So, for example, if your song was in the key of "A" then a I-IV-I progression would be "A-D-A." Also, depending on whether your song is in a minor or major key, each chord in the scale is usually specifically a minor or major chord. -SteveIn the key of C, it would be:I--II---III--IV--V--VI----VIIC-Dm--Em--F--G--Am---Bm7b5 It's easier in the key of C because there are no sharps or flats in any of the notes of the chords.I just started thinking this way recently after years of not... So, if this is incorrect, please let me know. CaseyAhhhh... yes I see. (Is that a light bulb over my head? Why is it flickering?)This notation is still not clear: I-IVmi6 progression. I guess in C it would be C to Fm? If I could remember what chord I used in the song in question I could figure it out. I wrote this a year ago, and have no recall. My brain only has the capacity to hold the ingredients of whatever I'm currently working on. One of the many reasons I'll never perform live.