When is 30 seconds not 30 seconds?

[kevinmathie]

Hi all!Last week I submitted two tracks to the following listing:Quote:UPTEMPO, CONTEMPORARY PROMO MUSIC (:10, :15, :30 versions) -- are needed by an East Coast Music Library/Publisher... He's open to currrent-sounding tracks that are in line with what is being used for News Programs, MTV, CourtTV, Lifetime -- and everything in between. He wants tracks that are in the :10 to :30 second range...I've been swamped this past week finishing up some jazz/gospel arrangements of Handel's Messiah for a concert this coming week. So, I haven't had time to come here and ask my questions. Instead, I did my usual trick (which I hope won't backfire on me someday) of submitting a couple of unfinished tracks to "hold my place" in the submission queue and then relace those submitted tracks with the finished versions over the next few days.So, here are my semi-finished tracks:UptownUrban GlassThere's a bit of remixing that needs to happen still, but here is my main question: When a publisher asks for 30 seconds, are they asking for the last note to hit at 30 seconds, or are they asking for the file length to be 30 seconds -- which would mean, with the reverb trail-off, the final note would hit somewhere in the 27 to 29 second range?In the above examples, "Uptown" has its reverb chopped off somewhat, which really bugs me, but the last note hits as late as possible -- around 29 seconds. In Urban Glass, on the other hand, the trail-off is fine, but the last note hits between 27 and 28 seconds, iirc.I'd love to go back and move Uptown's stinger earlier, thereby getting a more natural trail-off, but is that going to hurt me with the publisher? What's the usual practice with these types of specific-timed requests?Also, as a general note, do these cues come anywhere close to the mark? Since I didn't have time to produce something completely original, these are actually cues that I made for something else months ago, and just altered significantly to fit the parameters of this specific listing.I appreciate your input!Thanks!Kevin

[tedsingingfox]

GREAT question, Kevin, as I am trying to time the bpms for a new solo-piano tune I've come up with that is SO close to EXACTLY one minute long... I'm creating a :10, TWO :15, TWO :30, and the full 1:00 versions and was wondering exactly this.Ted

[aubreyz]

Kevin,The reason for a :30 version is that for both radio and tv, :30 commercials cannot exceed that.For TV the audio has to be out on the last frame (at roughly 30 frames per second) of the 29th second, so 29:29. For radio it can't be even a millisecond over 30 secs.So to answer your question, reverb trails, cymbal resonance, whatever has to be finished before the 30 seconds or it will just get snipped off and sound bad.Same for :15, :30, or :60's if they are for broadcast. (and you can pretty much assume if a library is requesting specific lengths in these ranges, then it's for broadcast).I'll try to listen to your promos soon.Aub

[matto]

Think of it this way: A commercial/promo spot on tv is exactly 10/15/30/60s long to the frame.So, you want to fill that time as much as possible, but without frame accurate truncation chopping the ring out off too badly.If the last chord hits too early and the ring out is just a reverb tail, there may be a perception of "dead air" at the end which is bad.If the last chord hits too late, and part of the actual chord gets chopped off, then it'll sound bad too.So basically, you do your best to avoid these two extremes.When you submit the cues to this listing, I think it's fine to leave the complete ring-out/reverb tail intact even if that makes the piece a second or two long. BUT, you must test it to make sure the tail could be truncated/faded to make the cue exactly 30s without it sounding overly cut off.HTH,matto[Edit: Aub beat me too it ]

[tedsingingfox]

Quote:Think of it this way: A commercial/promo spot on tv is exactly 10/15/30/60s long to the frame.So, you want to fill that time as much as possible, but without frame accurate truncation chopping the ring out off too badly.If the last chord hits too early and the ring out is just a reverb tail, there may be a perception of "dead air" at the end which is bad.If the last chord hits too late, and part of the actual chord gets chopped off, then it'll sound bad too.So basically, you do your best to avoid these two extremes.When you submit the cues to this listing, I think it's fine to leave the complete ring-out/reverb tail intact even if that makes the piece a second or two long. BUT, you must test it to make sure the tail could be truncated/faded to make the cue exactly 30s without it sounding overly cut off.HTH,matto[Edit: Aub beat me too it ]clears it up for me. Thanks.

[djdeweese]

Matto and Aub -- Thanks for the info. I had the same question, and have been challenged getting the last chord ring and reverb to end comfortably. One of my submissions with an orchestral theme really seems cut short. Anyway, your input helps. Thanks for the question, Kevin.

[kevinmathie]

Thanks for the info!