how am I doing?

[hummingbird]

Okay, here's the latest. I'm working very hard on producing broadcast quality stuff. I like this a lot, I think it has a kick & sounds contemporary... does the brass sound 'real', does it come together alright... and can you think of film/tv applications for it.thanks Hummin'birdEclipse -- http://www.taximusic.com/song.php?song_ ... tream=true

[horacejesse]

I like it, but to me it does not sound real, if we mean the same thing. I especially like the very opening as it got my interest where it was supposed to. Then you followed up with one more of those big gong splashes, and I liked that. (By the way, this piece only played for about 30 seconds. Is that correct?).Overall the sound was pretty synthy, I thought. At first I thought the horns were going to sound pretty real, but then I changed my mind, especially on their highest notes.Unfortunately, I cannot even offer a productive clue for improvement because we do not use anything like the same gear, and my only experience in trying to acheive your goal is on a guitar synthesizer. I realized I would have to upgrade to what Martin has, to have a realistic chance at a realistic orchestral sound. But I think you have the right equipment, so a few hot tips from those in the know might really do wonders.I don't know much about this genre, so my opinion may be kind of weak. This "man on the street" likes the piece but does not think it sounds like a real orchestra, if that is even what you were asking. I am sure you will get it, and I'll be interested in hearing future developments and what the solutions are.

[horacejesse]

P.S.After a few more listens, I have to admit I fell in love with those swirly things around the gongs. But those swirlies are 100% "not real", aren't they? I don't know. I may know even less than I realize about what is real. Anyway that extra activity around those two moments really is a nice touch.On the brass: the opening phrases did sound real to my novice ears. At the first modulation, a trace of suspicion crept in, and then more with each modulation. Are their any range related issues?To me the drums sound very good and also real, if you will. It is a snappy part that fits well, in my opinion.

[hummingbird]

Hi Horace - thanks for all the listens - yes, it's a 30 sec piece. My concern with "real" is the brass, which are the only orchestral instruments. So it's a bit of orchestral mixed with live percussion & synths -- to create contemporary electronica.

[davewalton]

Quote:Okay, here's the latest. I'm working very hard on producing broadcast quality stuff. I like this a lot, I think it has a kick & sounds contemporary... does the brass sound 'real', does it come together alright... and can you think of film/tv applications for it.thanks Hummin'birdEclipse -- http://www.taximusic.com/song.php?song_ ... ream=trueI remember something Michael Laskow said one time... film/tv music, it's all about the emotion. What emotion does this music convey? If it's difficult to say (and it is for me) then it'll have a more difficult time finding a home. In addition to that, placement in film/tv usually requires placement first in a music library or something similar unless you're well connected. They'd have to categorize this in a genre somehow but I'm not sure how they'd do it. As far as genre, I'm as much at a loss as I am to describe the "emotion" being conveyed. I'm on the opposite end of things from Jesse with the drums. I know we've talked about this but replace these with just about anythng from Stylus RMX and you'd hear a BIG difference, not only in the sound quality but in the "hipness" factor. Like Jesse, I wavered back and forth on the "realness" issue. I think that I've finally decided that the surrounding sounds pull the brass towards being unrealistic rather than the brass pulling everything towards being more realistic if that makes any sense. The "effects" are interesting but just by their very presence and having nothing to do with the music in the track, I get the vibe of a children's show, kind of a crazy science guy or something. Let's do a little experiment if you want. Send me the track (high quality MP3 is fine) with just the brass and little walking bass line that stops and starts. Mute everything else. Tell me what the BPM is and I'll throw in a beat from Stylus RMX, maybe even fortify the bass line. I'll thow it back to you to see what you think.

[anne]

I'd love to hear the results of that experiment - I liked the drums in Vikki's song. I found the brass the only "weak" point but for different reasons (lack of "pop" when they first hit). I'd love to hear what you would do with the percussion using Stylus and will keep following this thread to see what your song grows into, Vikki!

[hummingbird]

Yeah, I knew someone would pick up on the drum loops. Ya can't get away with anything around here. You also picked up on the Sci Fi angle, Dave. I often get the feedback that my instrumentals sound like children's music so I'm thinking I should really investigate that niche & listen to what's out there and see if I can do something similar... obviously I'm somewhat headed in that direction already. Unless they mean "immature", lol.In brief moment of despair this morning I thought, if I hadn't gone to the fantabulous wonderful excellent and heart-warming Rally, I could have purchased Stylus RMX, EZ Drummer, EW Gold, a decent vocal mike, a new flute & still have had change left over. OTOH, I wouldn't have missed the Rally for the world... so the tools will have to come as I'm able to get them.The mp3 is on it's way, Dave. Thanks for the very kind offer.luvHummin'bird

[matto]

Quote:Okay, here's the latest. I'm working very hard on producing broadcast quality stuff. I like this a lot, I think it has a kick & sounds contemporary... does the brass sound 'real', does it come together alright... and can you think of film/tv applications for it.Hey Vikki, I agree with pretty much everything Dave says. I think you need to put the horse before the cart. You're trying to produce broadcast quality promo music for a specific listing here, right? So you'd be far better off studying some promo music, listening to the different things they do and aspects of it, and then try to produce something with a specific emotion and application in mind, instead of just writing something and then trying to figure out whether it could be used as a promo.That being said, I think this piece is salvageable. The trumpet actually sounds fairly realistic, but like Ann said, it lacks impact. That's because it's a mf trumpet sample used in a busy action oriented piece (I'm assuming that's wat you're going for). As I said in the other thread, if you layered the brass, starting with low brass and building gradually by adding more and more and then put FF trumpet in the end, you'd have a nice dramatic piece that goes somewhere. That brass would need a good amount of hall reverb too, so it doesn't sound like it's being played 6 feet from the listener.Replacing the sort of plain vanilla drumbeat with something hip, either a cool breakbeat or something even more cinematic, would be the next step. Add some (additional) big bangs, could be timpani or the Wagner Bass drom from Silver (assuming it is in Silver).Next lose the soundeffects which sound like 60's SciFi to me and really put this piece in no mans land, and replace them with something else. Maybe a techno like synth riff (You have a synth background part in there but it's not really driving or dramatic and does not propel the pierce forward). Or a dramatic staccato/marcato string motif.Then add some swells of some kind (brass, cymbalrolls) in a few key places to add more drama.That should get you a lot closer. But starting with a clear goal and target in mind would be better still.matto

[hummingbird]

Thanks Matt. You hit the nail on the head. Believe it or not, I do listen to samples, but what comes out of my hands doesn't always seem to be from the same recipe. If I can pinpoint my own problem, it's that I don't know what to listen for, or I still don't listen enough to pick out the individual lines and see how they fit the whole thing and/or I hear it but don't know how to 'duplicate' it (not copy the composition, but copy the composition of sound). I also think I suffer from trying to do too much -- using the whole spice rack -- instead of using the KISS principle. Listen, listen, listen to what *does* work before even beginning will be my mantra from now on.You made some good points & I *really* appreciate the time you & Dave spend trying to help me get my head on straight.luvHummin'bird

[matto]

Quote:Thanks Matt. You hit the nail on the head. Believe it or not, I do listen to samples, but what comes out of my hands doesn't always seem to be from the same recipe. If I can pinpoint my own problem, it's that I don't know what to listen for, or I still don't listen enough to pick out the individual lines and see how they fit the whole thing and/or I hear it but don't know how to 'duplicate' it (not copy the composition, but copy the composition of sound). Well, it's a lot easier said than done, that's for sure. There's alot going on in many pieces, and it can be overwhelming to figure it all out. I would suggest just listening to, and trying to figure out, one element at a time. What is happenig harmonically? Rhythmically? What's the main melody/melodic motive? How is it developed/orchestrated? Etc etc.Quote:I also think I suffer from trying to do too much -- using the whole spice rack -- instead of using the KISS principle.Remember the trailers I sent you? Both of the orchestral ones were based on very simple motifs (strings on each one I think). I came up with these in my head (NOT at the keyboard), I think while doing dishes, after I had listened to a whole bunch of trailer music and let is sort of soak into my brain. Once I was satisfied the motif was sufficiently dramatic, I then wrote the entire piece around it. Everything I added had to fit in the same musical direction (i.e. add to the dramatic nature of the piece). I used simple techniques to keep the motif interesting. A little variation to the line itself. Modulation. Having it played by different instruments. Doubling it in octaves or with a different instrument. Not all pieces use all these techniques, I use only what I think is needed.I added a driving, interesting rhythm consisting of different elements: percussive parts, "hip" loops, big hits, and rythmic ostinatos played with brass or/and string staccatos (often these are doubled in octaves and more doubles are added as the picec progresses, and they usually stay out of the main melody's range (often the are either low or high, as the melody tends to be in the middle most of the time).I added cymbal, brass and reverse swells etc to punctuate certain sections or hits.One or two melodic counterpoint elements at the most (slow scales work well in this particular style).Compositionally and harmonically the pieces are very simple, yet they have a lot of impact and sound kind of "impressive". And there's not one part in them that would detract from the general emotion and musical direction I'm going for.Quote:You made some good points & I *really* appreciate the time you & Dave spend trying to help me get my head on straight.luvHummin'birdMy pleasure, and I'm sure Dave's as well.