Jacqueline takes Dave to "Punkville"

[squidlips]

I took a listen. I'll wait until the final mix and comment then. Signed,Old ex-punker (and yeah, it's rock, not punk. Sorry Dave! Keep at it, you'll get it there!)

[anne]

Hi Dave - it is more rock than punk. I don't know what date range the listing required but if you want a good reference of more "polished" punk (i.e. punk by people who could play their instruments ...) check out The Jam "In The Street Today" on youtube (http://www.youtube.com/v/Hc2ZIQ-xp7o&rel=1) and A Bomb (following video).

[davewalton]

Quote:Hi Dave - it is more rock than punk. I don't know what date range the listing required but if you want a good reference of more "polished" punk (i.e. punk by people who could play their instruments ...) check out The Jam "In The Street Today" on youtube (http://www.youtube.com/v/Hc2ZIQ-xp7o&rel=1) and A Bomb (following video). It's kind of interesting, I know some Punk is pretty trashy sounding but just listening to some "reference" punk recently like the Ramones, their music sounds fairly polished to me...http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZSt ... 77819006Of course maybe the Ramones don't really represent Punk Rock... There's definitely a divide between what some would consider "true" Punk and some of the Punk that's a little more polished. One of the tunes I used as a reference is Green Day's "Basket Case":http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZSt ... i=5132553I wouldn't have considered Green Day to be Punk but I was given their name as reference from several people. Like electronica or anything else, there's always so many sub-genres and alternatives to a principle Genre. Play the German tune for a straight ahead rocker and they'll label it as something else other than "Rock".Certainly the goal is to turn this into something that can be easily identified... the fact that it isn't that yet is just an indication that there's more work left to be done. I suspect this might be close to "Alternative". If that describes Green Day and this track is similar in sound to "Basket Case", maybe Alternative is a better genre description for the moment. Just feeling my way through.

[squidlips]

Quote:I suspect this might be close to "Alternative". If that describes Green Day and this track is similar in sound to "Basket Case", maybe Alternative is a better genre description for the moment. Just feeling my way through. I would agree with it sounding more alternative than punk, Dave. I take it you're committed to punk? Go for it, dude!

[davewalton]

Quote:Quote:I suspect this might be close to "Alternative". If that describes Green Day and this track is similar in sound to "Basket Case", maybe Alternative is a better genre description for the moment. Just feeling my way through. I would agree with it sounding more alternative than punk, Dave. I take it you're committed to punk? Go for it, dude!That helps with defining some basic concepts in my mind. Personally I want it to evolve into whatever will make it to be the most useful (i.e. $$$$), be it Punk, Alternative, or whatever. I would think that Alternative is a wider avenue and more contemporary than Punk but everything has its use and I'm all for anything that's useful. My only goal is avoid something that straddles two or more genres and can't really be identified. Mostly I think I'm going to follow Jacqueline's lead on this, maybe learn a little something in the process.

[davewalton]

Quote:I wouldn't call Green Day punk, but it has some punk influences. There are various references out there and Wikipedia is one you can use to get some feedback on a band's background and classifications. Here's a sample for Green DayIt's interesting that the article starts like this:"Nevertheless, its major label debut Dookie became a breakout success in 1994 and eventually sold over 10 million copies in the U.S. alone.[3] As a result, Green Day was widely credited, along with fellow California punk bands The Offspring and Rancid, with reviving mainstream interest in and popularizing punk rock in the United States"And then at the same time goes on to say this:"One of the more contentious issues is genre labeling. In reaction to both the style of music and the background of the band, many fans and musicians have taken heavy objection to the usage of the term "punk" when applied to Green Day. "So they're either widely credited for reviving Punk Rock or they're not at all a part of the Punk Rock scene, depending on who you talk to. That certainly clarifies things.

[squidlips]

If we get into classifications (as the industry applies them), this thread will never end. I think the Wikipedia explanation is a classic case of envy/adoration, myself......there're always going to be people who want to tear a band down beyond their talent and people who want to elevate them beyond their actual abilities. Somewhere in the middle lies the truth, if there's any to be found. While the marketing gurus carve up music to make it easier for them to hit their demographics, they clutter the landscape for musicians by brainwashing the public into deciding things before even giving the band a chance. Now poor Dave is trying to narrow a perfectly nice song into one genre and is having to sacrifice to do it, because it has to fall into such a tiny genre for it to feed the dog. Meantime, lots of new bands nowadays are so focused on a small area of expertise and foregoing the broad expanse of experience we had growing up, where bands knew quite a lot about blues, rock, pop, etc, and fused them together to make something new. Our musical heritage is exiting the building while marketers herd our listeners into smaller groups every day. Don't get me started on this (ack!). We should be able to place ourselves on a do-not-genre-fy list, like the do-not-call one for other industry marketers.

[sgs4u]

Quote:My only goal is avoid something that straddles two or more genres and can't really be identified. Mostly I think I'm going to follow Jacqueline's lead on this, maybe learn a little something in the process. I always think the singer's vibe is the only thing that matters, in terms of how to produce the "band." Jacqueline's voice might be all the direction you need. Is Green Day punk? Well, maybe pop punk. The anti-christ probably according to J Rotten and Sid Vicious... It's always so weird to me, the dichotomy between producing what is best for the song or singer, vs what is great for a listing. Sometimes they seem to be diametrically opposed. But you Dave, are a master. Your confidence and open-mindedness will get you to the right sound treaments very quickly.

[davewalton]

Quote:Now poor Dave is trying to narrow a perfectly nice song into one genre and is having to sacrifice to do it, because it has to fall into such a tiny genre for it to feed the dog. How long has your "Artists make terrible slaves" slogan been there? I LOVE it... I've never make a good "employee" and even outside of music, stayed self-employed for probably 80% of the time.Get a t-shirt made at http://www.uberprints.com/. My wife had a t-shirt made for me as a surprise before the Rally for around $20 with my "Composing is better than decomposing" slogan.Now back to our regular programming. The "What Makes A Song Great" thread is pretty interesting. Tying that into this, it's the combination of a little creative freedom, maybe stepping outside the box a little, and crafting it into something useful with the help of someone who knows more about this than I do that makes it really satisfying.The little "write from the heart, edit for commercial success" phrase is something I'm perfectly content with. How this gets "edited" for commercial success remains to be seen... maybe it turns into a totally ragged, bang your head against the wall Punker tune or maybe a more polished Alternative. Either way I'm outside my element and kind of enjoying the musical equivalent of visiting a new country and learning new things.

[squidlips]

Quote:The little "write from the heart, edit for commercial success" phrase is something I'm perfectly content with. Me too. It's all good. As long as we can still push the envelope (I'm not pushing hard enough, I can tell), that's enough for me. And thanks for the site, I just ordered a tank top. Whee! Oh, and I make a terrible slave too. Twins!! I've been self-employed most of my life and now getting a degree so I can gleefully continue that.