Jacqueline takes Dave to "Punkville"

[matto]

One thing to consider: when somebody is looking for GERMAN punk, they are not likely to care that much if it's true punk, punk rock, pop punk or alternative/punk. I think they'd be pretty happy as long as it sounds somewhat "punky" (and yours definitely does) and is in German.If you were to write an English punk song, you'd have to be more concerned with subgenres I suppose.And of course, your best bet would be to listen to GERMAN punk bands for inspiration, not English ones.matto

[davewalton]

Quote:One thing to consider: when somebody is looking for GERMAN punk, they are not likely to care that much if it's true punk, punk rock, pop punk or alternative/punk. I think they'd be pretty happy as long as it sounds somewhat "punky" (and yours definitely does) and is in German.If you were to write an English punk song, you'd have to be more concerned with subgenres I suppose.And of course, your best bet would be to listen to GERMAN punk bands for inspiration, not English ones.mattoThe listing was Punk Rock with German vocals. I don't really know what that means but we missed the deadline so for that purpose the song is a current orphan (sniff, sniff). I think an English version is the next basic step before deciding on how to produce it from there. This whole (fascinating) discussion has got me thinking about the definition of "producing" or "production". Normally for me, writing, recording, production, it's all wrapped up into one thing and I don't even think about. But this is different for me. This is more like what Casey does and probably a lot of others, performing and non-performing songswriters alike. The song has been written, now the question is how to produce it to bring it to its maximum potential. Hand it off to Faith Hill's producer? Probably not. This is one of those times though where I think that me being an observer or at least not taking the lead in the production of this is going to be the best way to go.

[davewalton]

Quote:I respectfully disagree... Dave's song is pure rock mainly because of the drums. German punk has punk drum patterns not rock ones. So it's not a big deal if he listen to German or English punk bands. Music-wise...Beside the attitude (lyric-wise) in punk the driven none palm muted power chords on guitar and the punk style drums would make Dave's song punk anyway. His singer does the rest in German. Bands like e.g. "Die Aerzte" and "Die toten Hosen" do use more or less the same drum patterns as English/American bands. Dave's drum arrangement needs a shift into punk drums. Currently Dave's song is a solid ball of rock.I'm taking his advice on this because his name is "Gunter". That's a good observation and the current recording is a function of a lack of good drum tools for this particular application. I've got tons of drums/percussion for cinematic and electronica but it actually boiled down to settling for the closest thing I had... one single selection from "Stormdrum" which has some regular drums as kind of a side attraction. I guess it gets back to "production". It's been written, recorded but not yet produced. A producer in this genre would probably say what you're saying and would produce the track accordingly ("drums... OUT! New drummer!" in addition to maybe a few other things). Believe it or not, I'm learning a LOT out of this and I can't thank everyone enough.

[squidlips]

well, if it was me and I was opting out of producing because someone else would get it there better, I'd find the person who would likely lead it to the water fastest and get it to drink, someone versed in that genre. I think you've got the right girl for the job, myself.It's so sad to think of our "missed the listing" songs as orphans. More like temporarily homeless?

[davewalton]

Quote:well, if it was me and I was opting out of producing because someone else would get it there better, I'd find the person who would likely lead it to the water fastest and get it to drink, someone versed in that genre. I think you've got the right girl for the job, myself.That's the ONE thing I'm dead sure of.

[matto]

Quote:Quote:One thing to consider: when somebody is looking for GERMAN punk, they are not likely to care that much if it's true punk, punk rock, pop punk or alternative/punk. I think they'd be pretty happy as long as it sounds somewhat "punky" (and yours definitely does) and is in German.If you were to write an English punk song, you'd have to be more concerned with subgenres I suppose.And of course, your best bet would be to listen to GERMAN punk bands for inspiration, not English ones.mattoI respectfully disagree... Dave's song is pure rock mainly because of the drums. German punk has punk drum patterns not rock ones. So it's not a big deal if he listen to German or English punk bands. Music-wise...Beside the attitude (lyric-wise) in punk the driven power chords on guitar and the punk style drums would make Dave's song punk anyway. His singer does the rest in German. Bands like e.g. "Die Aerzte" and "Die toten Hosen" do use more or less the same drum patterns as English/American bands. Dave's drum arrangement needs a shift into punk drums. Currently Dave's song is a solid ball of rock.I think you misunderstood what I was saying. The reason I said to listen to German punk is because those bands (Aerzte, Toten Hosen) have a unique vibe and sound to them despite using the same drum patterns and guitar parts as their English speaking counterparts.Since any movie or tv show looking for German punk is likely to have one of those bands temped in, the closer you match the "vibe" and spirit of those bands, the better your chances of getting the placement.I'm not disagreeing with you at all about the drums, just reminding everybody that music supervisors, directors and producers are typically NOT musicians. To them, it would be all about the right vibe. And IMHO an agressive, snotty lead vocal sung by a native German speaker is gonna be more important to nailing that "punk vibe" for them than the "correct" drumbeat.At least that's been my experience dealing with these folks...

[daniel481]

Just a little self-plug here. If you're looking for punk drum samples, there's some good stuff here http://bigfishaudio.com/4DCGI/detail.html?1288It's a loop library I recently completed called "Punk and Indie Rock: Slammin Sounds of So Cal" released by Big Fish Audio. The files come in Wav, REX, and apple loop formats.Thought it might help!Dan PS: I also produce, mix, and play guitars and bass on a lot of punk and rock if you're interested in a more personal form of help. If you are, send me a PM and I can send you some samples of what I've done in that genre.

[davewalton]

Quote:Just a little self-plug here. If you're looking for punk drum samples, there's some good stuff here http://bigfishaudio.com/4DCGI/detail.html?1288It's a construction kit library I recently completed called "Punk and Indie Rock: Slammin Sounds of So Cal" released by Big Fish Audio. The files come in Wav, REX, and apple loop formats.Thought it might help!Dan PS: I also produce, mix, and play guitars and bass on a lot of punk and rock if you're interested in a more personal form of help. If you are, send me a PM and I can send you some samples of what I've done in that genre.I'm always amazed by the breadth of talent here on the forum. Honestly Dan, I would pick that up in a jiffy if it weren't for that nasty little "construction kit" label given by Big Fish... meaning that by using any of the loops, I couldn't ever place the song in a music library according to BF's license agreement. That's an out-and-out deal killer for me since that's where the marketing of any 'non film specific' track would be through. I've called and had a nice conversation with one of their main guys who conceded it might not be the brightest restriction in this day and age but if you get the chance, drop another hint regarding a very restrictive restriction for guys like me (who would have a whole boatload of BF stuff if not for that).Bummer... Anyway, I do appreciate your bringing that to my attention and I'm pretty darn impressed I'm conversing with a creater of a product that I'd definitely be interested in using.

[daniel481]

Yeah, that stupid restriction doesn't make any sense to me. If anything it should say "use of preview mixes from this product is prohibited for use in music libraries". I don't see how it makes any sense to not allow the individual loops to be used, as that's what I thought the whole purpose of the products were!If it could never be traced back to me and I wouldn't get in trouble, I'd say just use them anyway. But I'd never say that, especially not on a public forum! Cause, I mean, it's not like it would be almost impossible for them to recognize the loops, especially if you changed them up a little (which is a piece of cake to do since they're easily customizable). But I could neeeever recommend that!I'm probably being a bad influence I'm mean, NOT being a bad influence.But seriously, if you'd like me to see what I can personally do to take what you have and make it more "authentic", let me know!DanPS: Though it has a label that says "Contains Construction Kits", it also has a separate label that says "Contains Loops". You could argue that the restriction would only limit use of the full mixes of a song, or several elements from the same piece, not just using something like the drum loops or bass loops individually...just a thought...