the Outsider

[sgs4u]

Quote:Steve, you will have to clue me in as to why anyone would purposely write a song to "sound familiar" unless it is for a listing asking for something that sounds like something else. Our philosophies and beliefs are apparently quite different on this matter. I agree that all twelve notes have already been played, I disagree this means I can write anything as long as it passes the legal test. My personal test is a lot tougher than the legal one. You said every chord has already been played. True enough, but every melody hasn't, and I was referring to your melody. Like I said, it happens to me also, and sometimes there just does not seem any place else to go.I will point out specific metering problems with the lyric when I get back in this evening.Hope you did not find the rest of my criticism too harsh or irrelevant. It means nothing if it is not honest. That does not mean you run up to a woman and shout, "Your baby sure is ugly." Honesty only counts if something useful is actually said. HJ, we don't have to like each other. I still respect you every morning when I get up. Our philosophies ARE very different, and I don't find yours to be wrong whatsoever. I guarantee you I look forward to each and every one of your posts. As you said, honesty only counts if something useful is said. I hope you can take the time to have another listen, because you always have awesome opinions to share!

[horacejesse]

Quote:HJ, we don't have to like each other. I still respect you every morning when I get up.First I even heard of it. I gather you do like snide bullshit.You have done a tremendous job with the music though, and Couch is consistently a brilliant lyricist.There is not much to complain about.The sung version is not identical to the lyrrics you provided, and I take that as evidence you are still in the process. You seem to have have made good editorial choices.The addition of "All" to line five of the first verse was a good choice, but the line still feels a bit crammed. Perhaps without the word "Layin" it would go smoother.Line three of the second verse and line two of the second chorus may be a tad awkward. I realize you had your work cut out for you preserving those excellent internal rhymes. Good job there. I am wondering if you can do even better.Line four of the chorus is better with "And."Ignoring the already spilled fact that I don't like the well trodden melody over the first two lines of the verses, the above really isn't much, is it?I like it more with multiple listens. It is a strong song, maybe more. I wouldn't even consider libraries, I would hold it back to pitch to bigger fish. Congratulations to both authors.

[Casey H]

HeyMy few cents... First, I see a Janis Ian "17" influence, not a copy... There is a big difference. It also had a Jackson Browne sound to it. As always, the grouch writes great lyrics and tells great stories.I didn't think the music and lyrics were quite ready for each other yet in places. It felt a little "forced" with syllables sometimes jammed in. It also didn't feel like the music ever "took off" to a hook-y chorus. The part, "She sits alone on the short school bus" sounded like great pre-chorus but then there is a bit of a letdown. The result is it goes on like reading a story but not a killer song.Although Country is not my best area, MHO is a re-write with a strong chorus that makes it so you can't get the words "the outsider" out of your head would give it a huge boost.As far as film/TV, the song still has to quickly capture the listener. One thing that can be an obstacle there is a very specific storyline. Many of my own songs are like that and think about re-writes to be a touch more general all the time. Now play nice Steve and Horace.... Don't make us have to give you a "time out".Warmest Regards, Casey

[rick]

This song is really nicely written lyrically and melodically.Alot of great changes keep it interestingmusically and the story is great.The only negative is it sounds as though a few of the lines of lyrics are being rushed.A quick nip and tuck and all is well.

[sgs4u]

Quote:First I even heard of it. I gather you do like snide bullshit. Well then... It must be all my own reaction to your special brand of prickly communication. Because I really don't enjoy snide crap at all. OTOH, you are a tough nut to impress, and your thoughts are usually specific and clear. Remember, I'm the guy who would prefer to be the class clown. Thankfully, I play a lot of hockey, which keeps my nastiness in check, most of the time.Quote:You have done a tremendous job with the music though, and Couch is consistently a brilliant lyricist.There is not much to complain about.Thank you, but it's not a Nashville demo, so I don't really know if anyone'll take the song seriously. Quote:The sung version is not identical to the lyrrics you provided, and I take that as evidence you are still in the process. You seem to have have made good editorial choices.The addition of "All" to line five of the first verse was a good choice, but the line still feels a bit crammed. Perhaps without the word "Layin" it would go smoother.Line three of the second verse and line two of the second chorus may be a tad awkward. I realize you had your work cut out for you preserving those excellent internal rhymes. Good job there. I am wondering if you can do even better.Line four of the chorus is better with "And."Ignoring the already spilled fact that I don't like the well trodden melody over the first two lines of the verses, the above really isn't much, is it?Thanks for all the specifics. I'll check out all your suggestions Monday. To me, every song is a work in progress until it's out of my hands. I will keep polishing this, until it shines, the best I can. Quote:I like it more with multiple listens. It is a strong song, maybe more. I wouldn't even consider libraries, I would hold it back to pitch to bigger fish. Congratulations to both authors. HJ, thanks again for taking the time to listen so attentively . You know I'm not looking for "nice beat, comments." I'm also quite aware that Taxi and most Southerners reaction will be to suggest getting it demoed in Nashville. Maybe this one's worth it. I agree, I don't think it's a library song. We'll see what develops.

[sgs4u]

Casey thanks again for spending the time. This really isn't a film & TV pitch. Still trying to get it a lot more hit sounding, at least the melody & lyrics. I sure hope I can learn to work faster than one new song every 2 months. That's my path for now. And thanks to Rick for posting as well. Songwriter also PM'd me an gave me some great suggestions. Thanks to all of you, I'll get back to work Monday, and see how much more juice I can inject into it.

[liamkelly]

I'm with clonsberry here. I'd also be a bad Taxi screener. I am just not able to critique this in a way that would add anything useful to this track. I think it's great.Sure, the lyrics tumbled a bit here and there (isn't that sometimes a good thing?), sure the chorus may need a bit of crunch or lift or something je ne sais quoi but for me this song has a very well written storyboard, a good vocal delivery and emotional punch.Polish away, Steve. Don't overpolish though. Liam

[svenni]

Hello Steve,I was just here at this forum to read reviews about a song I produced for Dean Taylor called “Faith” but stayed for a little while checking out other songs here. I started listening to “The outsider” and completely fell for it! I signed up here to make a comment! Doesn’t that say something about it? It starts out like a country tune... then I’m talking about the vox but it’s not.. I really LOVE your voice and I can’t imagine anyone else singing the song! … I think it’s sometimes like.. when you write a song and sing it yourself.. all the feeling you can give it... comes from you... as the creator/and or writer of the song.. it's not easy for even better vocalist to do that... plus you have a "GREAT" voice.The song has all the elements that a song needs to be noticed and it catches your ears on first listen… “Your on the hook! .. no doubt there in my mind.. is it only a demo version Production, Arrangement, Mix.. I don’t think so… it sounds to me like a quality recording.. does it have to be industrial cleaned? No.. it just sounds natural and human as it is and should... Does everything have to 200% perfect?… No.... J.J Cale a great blues guitarist/composer/singer usually did a few live recordings while recording an album... without any changes or over-dobbings and just left it as it was... that's what I like... the feeling and the groove it has... not dead-cleaned.....I was so touched by this song I called my wife to take a listen… went to the kitchento get a cop of coffee while she was listening and came back and found her in tears! I said…“Are you crying? Yes she said... Why? She replied… Svenni didn’t you listen to the lyric????I did... but the tears were "inside"Thanks Steve for making such a masterpiece:-)Svenni Bjorgvins (Iceland)

[johnhampt]

Again, I like this song and have been following the threads. I agree with Svenni that your voice is the hook. The song the way it is has a satire feel about it. Your voice is honest, sincere and no offense a little juvenile and goofy. It is a fun song and not meant to be taken seriously and I assume that was your intent. It's fun!!! I would tighten up the phrasing a bit and call it done. I don't see this at all in mainstream radio but could see it as a TV show theme or a movie.

[horacejesse]

Steve, I didn't say a word about demo-ing the song in Nashville. I like your presentation. I still think it might pass as a country song though. Twenty-five years ago, no. Today it just might. That is mostly because of the subject matter and lyrical treatment.