Re: Any closer? Another try, not hip hop yet

andreh · Post by **andreh** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 6:35 pm

Hey Songwriter-This piece is much closer to "commercially viable" than any of your other songs I've heard, at least in the "hiphop/pop" category (although it doesn't actually qualify as hiphop IMO).The first verse is super cool with great attitude & vibe...the octave voices and melody line are very Timberlake/Fergie-esque. The hook is pretty catchy, but not nearly as ballsy as the first part of the song. I think this song has lots of promise. If it were me, I'd change these things about it:- Simplify some of the melodies; after the first verse things start to get too "deep," which doesn't foster memorability.- Get to the chorus a lot quicker.- Be more repetitive; create variety with random production/arrangement tricks rather than by including lots of "sections" in the song arrangement. Again, you want better memorability.- Lose the vibrato that creeps into your voice every now and then (it kills the attitude), and try to be a little more "street" with your pronunciations.- Bring in a couple other singers (male rapper and female "spicer/moaner") to add "life" to the song; people love to get a "posse" vibe from this kind of music to make it feel like they're at (or part of) a party or club.Great job nailing a different sound from your norm!André

emusic · Post by **emusic** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 7:20 pm

I really like the song. If you are aiming for that pop with a hiphop touch I would use much more hiphop oriented rythms/loops.The opening of this (before vocals) reminds me some of a new age touch too.Great voice but the effects on voice is too processed imo. Really a song to work further on. Potential.And here at the end I hear a lot more of hiphop rythms too.More hippop feel could be acheived by changing the bass sound to a more constant deep bass without the rather hard impact/attack and the somewhat fuzzy feel it has now.imo/2 cents

andreh · Post by **andreh** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 8:00 pm

I agree with emusic's sentiments about the things that keep this song from being hiphop. However, Nelly Furtado has made this somewhat ethereal, but still hard-hitting, sound popular of late. And to me, the song would lose all of its commercial appeal if you removed the "attitude" elements such as the fuzzy, percussive bass.I guess it depends on what your goals are - to sound more hiphop, or to be as commercially viable as possible. You're gonna need a rapper to be more hiphop even with different beats.Andre

sgs4u · Post by **sgs4u** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 5:54 am

You are truly gifted. And yes, I do think you've got some more work to do. I don't think you're voice is too processed at all. The production, doesn't really sound like American Hip Hop yet. It has a wonderful Hall & Oates thing (I loved those guys). It's really still Pop, to me. the biggest place to improve quickly is the drums and loops. You mostly have a one loop thing going, you probably need a bunch more drum little tidbits bopping, especially high end. Listen to Justin. Some of the ethereal sounds are beautiful, but hip hop is more about drums. I would suggest a more hiphop version would need more other sounds going on as well, this is still pretty sparce. The low end thing is very cool, but a hip hop version, (IMHO) might not include that, because the bass notes in hip hop stuff generally have more space in between lines & licks. Play a bass lick, breath... What you have right now, it a pretty constant low-end groove. And I love what you've done, but I think that low-end thingy in particular would have to become less prominent/dominant. I think your style of writing and singing would suit more of a Maroon 5 pop production. More guitars, WAY bigger drums. But you are fabulous already. Every time I listen to anything new of yours, I learn stuff too. I get excited each time you post new music, and I'm drinking a Kilkenny later today in your honour! You really have a great vibe man. Find someone else to collab with, if you need more hip hop ideas. You have tons of skills to trade with. Make an agreement with someone to spend 5 hours on each others song, see what you end up with. Unfortunately, I don't think you can get a song to this stage, and expect a producer to run with your ball, unless you tell them you need their help co-writing it(owning it). Or it's your brother-in-law's ex-wife who married a new suit. Back doors always work better, I think. Without a targeted listener/producer, you better make the production spotless. It can never hurt your song to be completely radio ready. The opposite is rarely true. I do think it makes a lot of sense to get your songs all to this stage or better, then focus on a couple to make 'em killer. Just for your own experience. Other people will know more.

andreh · Post by **andreh** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 1:10 pm

Frickin' sweet dude.André

aubreyz · Post by **aubreyz** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 4:50 am

Dude,Great stuff. You give new meaning to the word prolific.I wish that I had time to give you some more detailed input, as i think both of these songs have really good commercial potential.I'm also glad to see Andre chiming in here. He has a great feel for this stuff -- and the production chops to make it happen.My first reaction to Golden was much like Andre's --- Freaking Awesome. It's not often that I have the OMG I wish I had written that reaction--- but that hook is solid.Quick points--- Production is fine for a song to artist pitch, but if you want to pursue placement you might need to "Timbaland" it some more.Lyrically, like I said the hook is great. Dead solid IMHO. For a placement, the other lyrics would work too. However, to pitch to an artist, I think the verses need a little more 'tude-- especially 2nd verse. This genre is all about "I'm the biggest thing since sliced bread". Personally, I like the lyrics as is-- but if you can put some more arrogant bling in there, I think it would bring it up several notches in song to artist potential.Aub

emusic · Post by **emusic** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 5:09 am

Quote:GoldenGreat potential. With a greater chorus/hook this would be hunted material. The bridge could also be better. Verse is very good imo.Make a totally breathtaking chorus/hook and produce it to it´s fullest and you file this as undiscovered hit material.

andreh · Post by **andreh** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 10:04 am

Quote:Thanks for listening to this one Andre. Any thoughts on stepping this one up a notch, or is it similar comments on adding more production spice?It's pretty darn cool as it is. A few thoughts do come to mind:- Your pronunciation is pretty hip, but it could still be more street and less "proper" in a few spots.- It could use another voice or two to make it feel more "posse-esque;" some short vocal samples would be nice too.- The layered, ethereal synths start to sound just a touch dated and wimpy in a few spots (compared with the rest of the cool parts, anyway).- The 4 bar synth break could be made more interesting or cut in half; radio listeners have a VERY short attention span.Quote:You haven't commented on the vocals lately. Is the new mic working out on your monitors?Your vocals do sound a lot better lately, though I still hear a brassiness or buzziness ~10-12k. You still mix things a little bright, so the vocal issues don't stand out as much....but if you pulled back some of the over-sizzle on certain instruments you'd hear the problems in the vox more.I haven't mentioned it lately because you're writing so much great music that I wanted to keep the focus on the positive. You're making inhuman progress, so why rock the boat?;)Andre

beerhunter · Post by **beerhunter** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 1:34 pm

Listening on crap speakers so can't comment on production. I like the song. It caught my attention early and held it all the way through. I'd like to hear some sizzling female vox but that is just a subjective comment.Great job and reading some of the other posts I see that you write quite a bit. Can't wait to hear your other stuff. I'm going to go looking for some of it now.Take care and best of luck.