Extreme sports instrumental

[kevinmathie]

It's been awhile since I've logged on here, due to my busy schedule at the theatre. In fact, tonight was Opening Night for the latest show I'm involved with (The Secret Garden). Now that I'm done with rehearsals for a little while, and all I have to do is show up to the performance for a couple hours a night, I'm going to get back on the forum and catch up on what's been happening around here.Anyway, I thought I'd let you all listen to something a friend and I created that's sort of out of my comfort zone. I'd love to learn from your experience. I've noticed that, from time to time, there are Taxi listings requesting underscoring for Extreme Sports and the like. So, I thought I'd like to try creating one, just for experience.Here's the track:(link/file temporarily deleted in order to free up some room on my very limited web space!)Like I said, this is out of my comfort zone. I'm more of a classical music kind of guy, and I have a lot to learn about arranging and recording this style of music. Any comments you have would be appreciated.Thanks!KevinEdited to add: BTW, one of the things that bothers me is that this track doesn't really have a melody. It seems a little like an accompaniment track of some sort. But maybe that's just the classical guy in me trying to get out.The guitars are really busy, and start out with a kind of "catchy" groove to them, but are they too static to maintain interest? Should I relegate the repetitive guitar hook to secondary element status and come up with something melodic that would be a primary element? Or would that make the whole thing way too busy? Right now, that's sort of what I'm thinking. Maybe I have too much material here, and need to cut something. (As the king said in the movie Amadeus, "There are too many notes. Just cut a few!")Or, am I making too much of this? Is it usable that way it is?

[horacejesse]

I got to listen to about 1:20 of the piece and then received a network error notification from Windows Media Player. WMP took about 8 minutes to produce any sound, and I doubt from experience I would get any further on a second attempt. So I can't comment in full. But I liked the tone of the guitars a lot and thought it was a high quality production. Extreme sports probably loves guitars and with tones like these. Melody as the classically trained think of it, may be a no-no in this genre. High energy is probably the main thing. I can see possibly using a lot of crashes and accents to represent impact in a highlight video. I am not an extreme sports devotee in my television habits.

[davewalton]

Quote:I got to listen to about 1:20 of the piece and then received a network error notification from Windows Media Player. WMP took about 8 minutes to produce any soundTime to ditch dialup, crowbar that wallet open for $10-$20 more per month and go for broadband.

[aubreyz]

Quote:It's been awhile since I've logged on here, due to my busy schedule at the theatre. In fact, tonight was Opening Night for the latest show I'm involved with (The Secret Garden). Now that I'm done with rehearsals for a little while, and all I have to do is show up to the performance for a couple hours a night, I'm going to get back on the forum and catch up on what's been happening around here.Anyway, I thought I'd let you all listen to something a friend and I created that's sort of out of my comfort zone. I'd love to learn from your experience. I've noticed that, from time to time, there are Taxi listings requesting underscoring for Extreme Sports and the like. So, I thought I'd like to try creating one, just for experience.Here's the track:http://home.comcast.net/~kevinmathie/100_MPH.mp3Like I said, this is out of my comfort zone. I'm more of a classical music kind of guy, and I have a lot to learn about arranging and recording this style of music. Any comments you have would be appreciated.Thanks!KevinEdited to add: BTW, one of the things that bothers me is that this track doesn't really have a melody. It seems a little like an accompaniment track of some sort. But maybe that's just the classical guy in me trying to get out.The guitars are really busy, and start out with a kind of "catchy" groove to them, but are they too static to maintain interest? Should I relegate the repetitive guitar hook to secondary element status and come up with something melodic that would be a primary element? Or would that make the whole thing way too busy? Right now, that's sort of what I'm thinking. Maybe I have too much material here, and need to cut something. (As the king said in the movie Amadeus, "There are too many notes. Just cut a few!")Or, am I making too much of this? Is it usable that way it is?Glad to have you back! Overall I think this track has a lot of promise. For this particular genre, aggression is the key. The things that fall short in my opinion:-Drums -- too far back in the mix and too small sounding. The kick and snare need to be in your face, like a metal track -- and the toms huge (lots of attack and reverb) - a steady, driving foundation that sets the aggressive tone. Bring the cymbals down, and everything else up.Guitars - Need to be "grungier" and bigger sounding. More bite. The parts are ok, just not in your face enough. You can double or triple the parts with slightly different distortion settings or amp simulations, play with some subtle delays and effects - do hard pans on the individual tracks and get a wider - bigger guitar sound.-Synths -- very little "extra" is needed for a track like this. Any kind of synth work needs to add bite. Some of the sounds are not very extreme -- the pads need to have grit if they are there at all.--Bass - a little too normal sounding. needs to punch with the kick, not as hot in the mix -- it's part of underlying the rhythm section in a track like this.As far as melody and variety -- you are fine there, though the breaks don't punch enough. You need to really accent and punch the breaks (the first series of rhythmic breaks there are also some timing things- sounds like the guitar is off a bit) Big kicks, snares, cymbal crashes etc, to make the rhythm slam. Think about this. This kind of stuff will be used for fast paced video edits. Editors want strong beats that they can cut to. You want to give them a lot of strong, obvious, almost staccato accents to be able to edit to. Like I said... the potential is there, just need to rock it out a bit more.Aub

[kevinmathie]

Excellent suggestions! Thank you!Give me a few days to make some of those changes, and I'll post another version of the song to see how I fared.Thanks!Kevin

[kevinmathie]

Well, it's been a few days, and I've been working on the track. Although, listening to them side by side, I don't know how much improvement I've made.I've changed the sound of the guitars a little, but then I made them a little louder in the mix -- which probably negates the work I've done with the kick, snare, and tom sounds. But, I'll see what you all have to say. Maybe the snare needs to be louder. Or bigger. Or maybe it needs more cowbell. ;o)I put a limiter on the master faders, but it seems to me that it creates a slight "pumping" effect on the track at times which is a little disconcerting to me. However, maybe I'm hearing something else, and interpreting it incorrectly, because I can't seem to get rid of it.Anyway, here's the latest incarnation. I didn't do much with the accents and breaks, because I wanted to see where I stand so far regarding the body of the song (i.e., the relationship between guitar, bass, drums, and keys). Have I moved forward at all? Backwards? Or just spinning my wheels?Below, I'll put both tracks together so you can A-B them more easily, rather than scrolling up to my original post to get the 1st mix:(link/file temporarily deleted in order to free up some room on my very limited web space!)(link/file temporarily deleted in order to free up some room on my very limited web space!)Thanks for your input, everyone!Kevin

[aubreyz]

Quote:Well, it's been a few days, and I've been working on the track. Although, listening to them side by side, I don't know how much improvement I've made.I've changed the sound of the guitars a little, but then I made them a little louder in the mix -- which probably negates the work I've done with the kick, snare, and tom sounds. But, I'll see what you all have to say. Maybe the snare needs to be louder. Or bigger. Or maybe it needs more cowbell. ;o)I put a limiter on the master faders, but it seems to me that it creates a slight "pumping" effect on the track at times which is a little disconcerting to me. However, maybe I'm hearing something else, and interpreting it incorrectly, because I can't seem to get rid of it.Anyway, here's the latest incarnation. I didn't do much with the accents and breaks, because I wanted to see where I stand so far regarding the body of the song (i.e., the relationship between guitar, bass, drums, and keys). Have I moved forward at all? Backwards? Or just spinning my wheels?Below, I'll put both tracks together so you can A-B them more easily, rather than scrolling up to my original post to get the 1st mix:100 MPH, first mix100 MPH, second mixThanks for your input, everyone!KevinHey Kevin. The limiter is pumping pretty bad so that makes it hard to really tell what's going on. Everything sounds kind of like a wash rather than having distinction. What limiter plug are you using? Strapped across the main fader you really want a soft-kne compressor that is only limiting 3db or so. After that, there is sometimes a need for some very subtle brick wall limiting, but that's more of a mastering thing.Sounds like you added a lot of reverb to the toms and snare -- It's a little dense- that patch might work, but shorten the reverb time so that it's more a part of the drum sound rather than a wash.I like the guitar tone, but it is too hot. I'm doing lunch right now, so between bites let me give you some quick mix tips. There are many different mixing styles-- this is one that I use a lot.Start with nothing but the kick (and no compression on the main fader). Depending on the samples used, you might need some compression. Bring the fader up or down until the kick is hitting peaks around -18db (I will usually start from there, but may go up to as much as -10 depending on the style/mix etc).Add in the other drum elements and get them in balance - making sure you can hear everything (might want a little compression on the snare and toms too in order to add some punch).. From there bring in the bass - (maybe another compressor) - Make sure the low end is solid and not boomy and that the bass doesn't overpower the kick and visa verse. Often you can notch out a few db from 200 to 400 hz from either the bass or the kick in order to get rid of some boom and have them not fight each other for space in the mix. At this point your main faders shouldn't be hitting much above -10. If it's hotter than that, keep the balance, but lower all the other faders a few db.Then start adding the primary instruments - making sure you don't lose anything else by adding more. Panning, eg and different fx levels can help things occupy their own space without stepping all over something else -- for instance, if the guitar tone has a lot of low end you can roll some off and still keep a full sounding tone because those frequencies are there in the bass.. maybe pan a synth with a lot of high end attack opposite the hat or use less reverb or only early reflections for some things - that can add some depth.--- all the while keeping your main faders away from clipping. Once the overall balance is set... then automate fader moves to emphasis certain things--- etc.A comp on the main fader should be the last addition IMHO (though I know a few engineers who like to mix with it in the chain) It only serves to add some extra pop and punch to the mix, and I don't like to compress more than 3-4 db , soft-knee with a pretty fast attack and fast to med release and a 2:1 to 4:1 ratio (there's no hard rules there... tweak to taste).Hope that gives you some ideas.Aub

[kevinmathie]

Aub,Great post. Thanks. *Sigh*, I'm just too much of a classical guy, I suppose. But, I'm very determined to get good at this other genre.So, I'll take a few more days, do a remix (thanks for taking the time to do a step-by-step, btw), and then make another post, showing the results.Kevin

[aubreyz]

Quote:Aub,Great post. Thanks. *Sigh*, I'm just too much of a classical guy, I suppose. But, I'm very determined to get good at this other genre.So, I'll take a few more days, do a remix (thanks for taking the time to do a step-by-step, btw), and then make another post, showing the results.KevinYou'll get it. Hope my input helps.I wouldn't mind some feedback on something more in you genre of expertise. The tune I submitted for the same listing Andre' posted about got canned too. Here's the thread. Be brutal. I can take it http://taxi.proboards27.com/index.cgi?b ... 764Aubbtw- input by others will be appreciated as well. I think I know some things that are wrong with it, but other opinions would be most helpful.

[andreh]

Kevin-In addition to Aub's excellent suggestions, I'll add that the mix could benefit from more variety throughout the piece. As it stands, the guitar takes center stage the whole time, and even when you have drum fills or synth stabs/transitions, they aren't given enough attention. Use panning and automate volume to draw obvious attention to different parts and change it up to keep the listener interested...especially considering how long the song is. Some additional parts added here and there woud help as well.Also, the guitar's timing gets a little sloppy during the breakdown at :39, and this kind of piece needs to be supertight the whole time. If your playing is limiting you (as mine does me often), take advantage of your DAW's editing functions to clean things up.Although I agree that this mix is WAY overlimited, I do like the sound of pumping hi-hats/overhead drum mic's when their compression is governed by the kick and/or snare. You can achieve this by compressing the drum together, or for better results (that'll sound a lot like what you're hearing now but will not affect the whole mix), use a side-chain compressor on the HH/OH with the kick/snare as key inputs. If you're not familiar with this technique, do a search on the gearslutz.com forum and you'll find lots of info.The piece lives up to its name, and has potential to be a winner.Andre