Who do we believe?

[cameron]

Just got a return on three songs I'd submitted. I guess that's to be expected for the high-bar country listings I'm chasing, but it's hard to take any of the critiques seriously when every screener says something different. I've received previous critiques on all three songs. Today's screener said "could benefit from more development" and rated the lyrics relatively poor on one song (a four). The Taxi custom critique I got last week on the same song said "Your story has good development. I really like your lyric, it is relatable (sic) and engaging." and gave the lyrics a 7. I could go on, but you get the idea.I realize that a critique is just one person's opinion, and that there are always other listings... but to me this is one big flaw in Taxi's system. I know Taxi just reflects the industry, but to me, having to get by a screener-- who may or may not share the client's tastes-- just to get somebody in the industry to listen to your song is not a good thing. Basically, with Taxi you have to get through two people instead of just one, so your chances of success are reduced accordingly. Of course, Taxi gives you the CHANCE to get a listen from some major labels who you would never get to listen to you songs otherwise, but I think it's important not to put all your eggs in the Taxi basket. Yes, I understand why Taxi keeps their standards high, but what's good for Taxi is not necessarily what's good for you. Keep promoting your songs and building your own contacts, and remember that Taxi is just another tool in your bag.Cam

[horacejesse]

You know the routine. Without the listings, the audio version and the critiques, no one can tell you who to believe.

[cameron]

Maybe the subject of the thread is misleading. I've already had the songs critiqued and posted on peer-to-peer and I don't think I need more advice on them. My points were (besides venting) that 1) Screeners have opinions just like anyone else 2) They don't always agree with each other (or the client) and 3) Keep promoting yourself through other avenues. Taxi has 12,000 or so members vying for relatively few listings, so venture outside the flock once in awhile.Cam

[mazz]

Cameron,I think you just answered your own question but I'll put in my 2 cents FWIW:My answer: everyone and no one. A crappy answer, I know, but I think you know that at some point you have to decide to believe in your song or let it go and write another, incorporating or not the feedback you've received and just submit again when you decide that the song is right for the listing. The screeners for sure have opinions but hopefully they're professional enough to allow their opinions to be informed by both the bar set by the style of music (a las, etc.) they're screening and the bar set by the client they're screening for. It's an inexact science, for sure, kind of like psychology or stock investing and you're pretty much guaranteed that you'll be disappointed some of the time.I don't know if this helped you or not, I know sometimes it just helps to vent and I honor and appreciate that. This is not an easy business!!Hang in there!!!Mazz

[billg]

hey Cam, I think we've all been there & thought the same things that you're bringing up. I've always thought that if a screener had a problem with a song that was basically "spliting hairs" on a subjective issue that the song should be forwarded. Like you said, the client may see it differently. However there seem to be some hard and fast rules for the "new" country market. It's my belief that it's nearly ( I said NEARLY!) impossible to get a cut by a major country artist from an unknown writer through Taxi and I tip my hat to all of you guys (and gals) who keep trying. All songwriters get banged up pretty good on a regular basis but you guys take the most punishment. You're a tough breed.

[jchitty]

Oct 21, 2008, 11:20am, billg wrote:hey Cam, I think we've all been there & thought the same things that you're bringing up. I've always thought that if a screener had a problem with a song that was basically "spliting hairs" on a subjective issue that the song should be forwarded. Like you said, the client may see it differently. However there seem to be some hard and fast rules for the "new" country market. It's my belief that it's nearly ( I said NEARLY!) impossible to get a cut by a major country artist from an unknown writer through Taxi and I tip my hat to all of you guys (and gals) who keep trying. All songwriters get banged up pretty good on a regular basis but you guys take the most punishment. You're a tough breed."You're a tough breed." That's about the nicest thing (and so true) that anyone has ever said about us country songwriters. If we complain just a bit, hehe, we are seen as whiners. But really.... it takes a lot of fortitude and drive to continue to submit month after month and not get fowarded on a regular basis. This is what you face when you write country....I feel like a doctor sometimes...I cannot emotionally attach myself to my patient (that being the song of course) so I've learned not to feel anything and keep creating...that's my way of staying in the game. Cameron, I too have had differing critiques on my songs. It's frustrating at times, especially when you're trying to determine what it takes to get a foward. I look for one common element that might appear in all the critiques...such as, if three different screeners are saying that your chorus is too repetitive (I've had that before) then that's what you need to work on. It can be confusing, I know....you'll have two or three screeners say different things about a song, some liking it, some not, but often times, you can find one common point they all found fault with. That's the one to focus on.Of course, sometimes, two critiques will be totally different...and on one occasion, I've had one screener not foward a song, while another screener did foward the song. You might even try re-submitting the song again. There are times when I say, "WTF" when I read a TAXI screener's comments. And YET, I've had my days when I say, 'you know, TAXI is making me a better writer!"

[louis2012]

The one thing that fascinates me about the high bar country listings is the critique of lyrics. Country music (aside from hip hop) has more cheesy, trite, cliched, hackneyed and insincere lyrics than pretty much any other genre! So when a screener returns a country submission and says things like 'try to put a new spin on an old sentiment' I immediately go onto youtube, see the successful country artists of today and I piss myself laughing at the inability of any of these artists to say something new.Its sad when a killer melody gets over looked, I'd love to say to these record company people, 'hey here's a killer melody, why not sign it and get that talentless cracker who can't write his own songs (which begs the question why did you sign him) to mumble whatever trite shite over the top because you only signed him for his looks'.Let's not pretend for a moment more that country has got anything new to say.

[matto]

Oct 20, 2008, 8:56pm, cameron wrote:I've received previous critiques on all three songs. Today's screener said "could benefit from more development" and rated the lyrics relatively poor on one song (a four). The Taxi custom critique I got last week on the same song said "Your story has good development. I really like your lyric, it is relatable (sic) and engaging." and gave the lyrics a 7. I could go on, but you get the idea.One important thing to keep in mind is that every critique (except custom critiques) is written in relation to the listing it was submitted to. It's entirely possible that a lyric would rate a 7 when critiqued in a vacuum (custom critique) because it is relatable and engaging, but would only rate 4 when compared with the very best songs coming out of Nashville...where simply relatable and engaging is not nearly enough to even get a listen. Think of it as "grading on a curve".Another thing to remember is there could be many reasons a song isn't strong enough to pass the Nashville high bar. So if one screener tells you the melody isn't catchy enough, another says the lyric isn't as strong as needed, and a third says you need a more unique concept...they might ALL be right.Remember for Taxi to forward a song to a high bar Nashville listing it needs to be able to compare favorably to the *best* songs being written out there, by what are, collectively, arguably the best songwriters in the world.That's no small feat...

[tedsingingfox]

Oct 22, 2008, 9:00am, louis2012 wrote:The one thing that fascinates me about the high bar country listings is the critique of lyrics. Country music (aside from hip hop) has more cheesy, trite, cliched, hackneyed and insincere lyrics than pretty much any other genre! So when a screener returns a country submission and says things like 'try to put a new spin on an old sentiment' I immediately go onto youtube, see the successful country artists of today and I piss myself laughing at the inability of any of these artists to say something new.Its sad when a killer melody gets over looked, I'd love to say to these record company people, 'hey here's a killer melody, why not sign it and get that talentless cracker who can't write his own songs (which begs the question why did you sign him) to mumble whatever trite shite over the top because you only signed him for his looks'.Let's not pretend for a moment more that country has got anything new to say.Uh-oh, Louis.Now you've done it.Me, personally... I believe you have just made not only an inaccurate statement but also an extremely dangerous one, and there are many dedicated, committed country songwriters on these boards as well as country fans.There is no other genre of songwriting out there today that requires MORE work and more crafting and editing and refining, OR more of a command of the (nuances of the) language than "hit" country songwriting. I won't argue for one second that less-than-stellar songs get cut and often run way up the charts; but from a purely constructional perspective, it's the smartest stuff being written.I shudder to think about the heated, emotional responses you might be getting in the near-future.Good luck, man. (Brace yourself... )Ted

[hummingbird]

Cheesy, trite, cliched, hackneyed and insincere? If that's how you feel about country music, then why would you even be trying to write in that genre...?