Do I need a new computer? Delays in recording PT8

[pkramble]

As some of you may be aware, I'm working towards getting a decent demo sound in my home studio. Here's what I have so far:

ProTools 8 LE
M-Audio MBOX 2
M-Audio Axiom 61
Shure/Samson scratch mic
AT 2500C Condenser
Sony Vaio Laptop with Windows Vista (2Ghz dual core, 2GB RAM, 512GB HDD 7200rpm)

Here's an example of what I'm running into, and maybe it's just that I have something setup wrong. I'll run through the steps and see if someone can help me figure out what's happening or if I need to upgrade my computer.

1) I recorded a piano track with a scratch vocal into PT, and life is going fairly well.
2) I doubled my vox, added some plug-in effects.
3) I recorded a string backing track along with everything.
4) I'm ready to put an acoustic guitar on there... and although I know I should mic it, my kids are running all over God's creation, so I just plug it in, get adjusted - doesn't sound bad (I can EQ the fire out of it later).

And here's where it happens - there's a rather significant delay between my playing and the headphone out on the MBOX. I've screwed around with the Mix knob (which I don't fully understand) but it doesn't seem to be helping my delay problems. I'm not getting the nasty Playback Engine pop-up since I increased that value... so could this now be a hardware issue?

A number of things that I probably should consider (?)
- this is a rather old laptop and has had issues in the past, although it's fairly healthy these days (3rd hard disk)
- this is also my day job computer and although I keep it pretty clean, the disk is "very active"
- it only has 2 USB ports, so I have a USB 2.0 hub attached - although the MBOX is plugged in direct.
- maybe I should just record two track instrumental songs until I can sell something to cover a new massive desktop quad-core 16GB RAM and so on
- I have an external WD 1TB, but at USB 2.0, is it fast enough to use as the dedicated PT drive?

As always, any help the TAXI brain collective can provide is much appreciated.

[pkramble]

Update:

I screwed around with reducing the buffer settings (found that in a previous post) and I think the latency/playback is "manageable". However, about halfway through I got a:

"DAE can't get audio from the drive(s) fast enough. Your drive may be too slow or fragmented, or a firewire drive... "

I'm going to try defragging, but I'm wondering if that's going to be enough?

[japaneseprincess]

hmm. my laptop only has 2GB ram, i have Mbox 2, i have no issues recording 32 live instruments (well, separately.. not at the same time !!).

Have you done ANY of the trouble shooting steps? If not, you really need to ! you mean you have Mbox by Digidesign or M-powered, those are different products. i guess you have M-powered as you mention M audio.
http://duc.digidesign.com/showthread.php?t=187759

Also in Playback Engine (in Set Up), make sure your H/W buffer size is small (try 512 samples) when you are recording, otherwise it will cause latency (delay). after finishing recording and you wana plug ins, then increase H/W buffer size.

You can not use USB HD with PT8. It is not supported by Digidesign, as it is very problematic.
Your external HD (or SATA drive) needs to meet Digi's specifications.
http://www.digidesign.com/index.cfm?nav ... emid=23140

i had many issues with USB extrenal HD, so i had to invest on good FW HD with Oxford Chipset. then i have no issues.

also write down the error code (-9073 etc.) you get then go to DUC http://duc.digidesign.com/
type your error code in search, you will get the right answer for it.


I dont think you need a new computer as long as you do the right thing..

[pkramble]

Thanks... I managed to get a recording. I think I had my playback too rich... I had not really experienced the "two modes" I guess, the settings when you are recording, versus settings when mixing/plug-ins. I guess sometimes you have to sacrifice the full sound while you are recording?

Just for posterity, here's what I did:
1) Reduced both buffer amounts (per your notes)
2) Hid/removed all the non-crucial tracks (my doubled vox, strings, other stuff)
3) Bypassed plug-ins where I could.

The latency was almost unnoticeable this go-around.

Definitely voting for some "tweaks" rather than purchasing a PC (need that money for more sounds, plug-ins, gear!)

The FW HD investment might be good... my laptop does have an FW port.

Appreciate all the links, digging through them now.

[japaneseprincess]

Definitely voting for some "tweaks" rather than purchasing a PC (need that money for more sounds, plug-ins, gear!)

The FW HD investment might be good... my laptop does have an FW port.

yes, if you have a FW port, you can get a FW HD (7200 rpm FireWire 400 drives with the Oxford 911 chipset). OXford 911 is not so easy to find but it is absolutely fine to use Oxford 924, 934. i use Oxford 934 chipset. with no problem at all.

You really do not have to spend money on getting more sounds and new plug-ins or new computers, these things come step by step (..after we make any money from music ? ). PT8 does have enough plug ins and basic sounds already and using high end plug-ins doesnt mean that it instantly makes it sound amazing. You can do loads of things with basic PT 8 plugs. you need to learn how to use these tools well by experimenting.. you dont need NEVE or SSL stuff.. Broadcast Quality can be done with your current set up with no extra investment. it is not a good idea to spend on new things before getting to know what you have now.

[pkramble]

Definitely agree on the purchase aspect... I'm working on some basic instrumental stuff that I hope I can get some traction with for small things, like public service announcements and so on.

I do need to learn BFD Lite - the pain was that it doesn't let me use the jazz set, so I'm still looking for some brushes in the other sounds... definitely some there I think.

Thanks so much! I'm still walking up the steep learning curve - but already things are sounding better than before!

[japaneseprincess]

Definitely agree on the purchase aspect... I'm working on some basic instrumental stuff that I hope I can get some traction with for small things, like public service announcements and so on.

I do need to learn BFD Lite - the pain was that it doesn't let me use the jazz set, so I'm still looking for some brushes in the other sounds... definitely some there I think.

Thanks so much! I'm still walking up the steep learning curve - but already things are sounding better than before!

BFD lite is a cut down version of full BFD 2. so it only has very basic kit pieces unless you upgrade it to BFD 2. For Jazz, i think Addictive Drums with Modern Jazz Brush AD Pak and Jazz Stick AD pak will be good for Jazz. But I dont want to advise anyone to spend too much money unless its absolutely necessary for your compositions. there are quite a lot of things you can do with BFD lite.

[Kolstad]

Your PC specs sound decent enought for you to be able to do what you describe. A couple more RAM's would be better, though, and who wouldn't want a new MAC or i7!

But you can probably do a lot more with what you have.

Make sure you use Steinbergs ASIO driver. That's a must for handling latency! You must download it http://www.asio4all.com/ , and set you DAW to use it.

And you can tweak Vista to do better too, here's the SOS aricle on the subject http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/nov08/a ... sician.htm

Hang in there.. it's tough in the beginning (first year at least), but you WILL learn the how to's!

[Casey H]

When you are recording, which ASIO driver do you have your DAW set to? Your PC sound card's or the M-Audio one? Try setting it to the M-Audio's ASIO driver when recording if you are not doing that. You can switch it back later for mixing on your PC.

Also, go to M-Audio's site and download the very lastest drivers if you aren't sure you are up to date.

Casey

[pkramble]

Where do you set the driver in PT?

Wow, I've tried posting this a few times, seems the board is acting up for me... thanks for the Vista tweaks!

Also - anyone out there know any good training for the BFD stuff? I'm a little stuck on how to get them in my song... a) do I track each drum individually (like I would a live mix) and them copy/sync them, or b) is it best to use one of the grooves (depending on if it fits?)

The help and online stuff I've found for BFD is fairly weak... at least so far.