How to pay musicians for recording sessions

[jmather]

What's up everyone!

Ok, so I've been tossing this little dilemma around for some time now, and finally remembered to throw it to you all. (I've been bad about being on the forum lately, sometimes I forget about it :/)

So here's the deal - I've been told that the best way and most common way to pay side musicians for studio time is by paying for their actual studio time and then that's it, nothing more after that - ie royalties, cd sales...

However, my situation is this: I'm not talking about one recording session. Rather, an ongoing going partnership in recording and producing songs. I don't have the money to pay my guy upfront and I would like to share a percentage of the writing/publishing and see my partner get royalty checks down the line along with me. Do any of you do this and if so how do you divide the %s.

Key info - I write the music, I pay for the taxi fees, I have the studio.

Do you set a flat percentage no matter what the side man does, say 25%? Or, if he lays down one guitar line on one song, but plays guitar, bass, vox, helps produce and mix another? Different %s for each?

Surely someone out there has tackled this already - I'd love to hear some input!

thanks

Justin

[Len911]

Justin, I would think the best agreement was one that made you both happy, and negotiating each session might be better than one long-term contract. It may eventually turn into a standard contract that makes you both happiest, because if either party felt locked in long term or performed under obligation their performance would surely suffer.

[zircon]

Yes, I strongly recommend using a template contract (you can write it yourself) and then adapting it on a project-by-project basis. Trying to make all-inclusive agreements can be a recipe for disaster if any language is vague and there is a dispute later.

[jmather]

Thanks Len and Zircon. I like the time by time basis idea. I appreciate the input.

Justin

[coachdebra]

In film these kinds of contracts are really common. You're paid an hourly or project wage plus points. What are points? They are a percentage of the proceeds from a project. This can be really simple or it can get really complicated. And of course, I advocate simple. You also want to differentiate are the points on the gross or the net of the project? In other words, are you paying a percentage on the total income or on the income minus expenses for the project. I recommend the latter, or you may find yourself paying your musicians more than you're making yourself.

[mojobone]

For me, it's cash or trade, for session work; back end participation can get sticky, (plus you never know when you'll be paid) so I tend to avoid it unless it's a co-write situation.

[jmather]

Thanks Debra and Mojo - I'm still trying to decide what the best way is... The particular situation is a friend of mine so I want to be generous but don't want to screw myself either I really appreciate you all taking the time to offer your advice.

J

[Len911]

Did you watch the Taxi video? I think it was a live stream last friday I didn't see until yesterday, there was an email link to it, forgot the title now,lol, but it had a question about this that was answered by Mike Laskow,(hope I have the name right). It had something to do that if you hired union session players and only contracted for a demo, but used it in a movie or I presume recording, the union might come back and sue you for a different kind of rate (forgot the term). He named the type of agreement, I believe, "for hire" agreement you needed to make so that wouldn't happen, but you should watch the video rather than take my recollections as gospel.

[mojobone]

Yep, you get a 'work for hire' agreement from the (union) musicians and you must pay Master rates rather than Demo rates if the recording is to be licensed for sync (film/TV) use or offered for sale. I occasionally bring in non-union musicians, pay them an agreed-upon upfront rate for which they sign a WFH agreement which simply states that they have no ownership stake in the session masters. I'm told that it's sometimes possible to hire union musicians to moonlight 'off the book', but that generally means you can't use their name(s) in the credits.

[jmather]

Thanks Len and Mojo - I'll check out the video, I think I saw the first part of it...

I talked it over with my musician friend the other day. We were both thinking along the same lines as far as compensation and we bounced a few different ideas around -
A. session fee only
B. a small back end percentage only
C. or a combination of the two.

Looks like we're both leaning toward C. He helps me out now with a drastically reduced per-song session fee, I help him out later with a small piece of the pie.

thanks for all your help with this. What I want is something fair that works for both of us, get it settled, so we can move on to making music! And $ hopefully

Justin