Midi Guitar Composing??? UPDATE!! Up and running, Thanks All

[t4mh]

Jen

I experimented with this some time ago. I have a Roland midi pickup layin around here somewhere still today. I no longer have the GR20 system that it goes with... I believe the Roland is the best system I found, largely because it responds best to your playing. Besides being a live unit, you can send midi data ( record )to your sequencer software, whatever you're using via the GR20 midi out. You can then send the data ( playback )either back to the GR20 or to just about any other synth. Also, the pickup itself just sticks ( adhesive )on to your guitar and never hurt the finish on any guitar that I had it installed on. The adhesive allows you to move the pickup around some to optimize for your guitar and doesn't require the setup from a repair shop or anything. Pretty simple really...

I no longer do this because I just do my guitars in audio anymore. Its actually much quicker for me. But thats just me. I have been experimenting with guitars done on my keyboard as I have heard some things done that way that are quite amazing! But I am finding that you must think like a guitar player when playing the keyboard.

HTH
Keith

[jfraizer]

Jen,

If you take the plunge into midi guitar and have Kontakt, a great add on is the GTAK software mentioned above.

Normally, midi guitar is in mono mode. This means each string transmits on a different midi channel (1 thru 6, 2 thru 7 etc.) The other choice is all strings on the same midi channel.

When in mono mode you have much more control of bending strings, creating splits etc.

Hence, to play a sound in a VI one would have to load six instances of the same sound ( or different sounds if you want to do splits and layers)

The GTAK software was developed to load its "script" into Kontakt and then load a patch from the Kontakt library. One patch and all six midi channels-Instant Mono Mode!!!

As, or more important, in the scripting you can set the velocity floor and ceiling. The biggest problem in tracking with a midi guitar is false triggers, low velocity stuff like lifting a finger off the string or touching another string. This stuff shows up in midi as very short duration and usually very high midi information (especially false harmonics)

By being able to filter this junk in GTAK you don't hear any of the junk.


Good luck with this endeavor.



Chuck

Very interesting. Thanks for the info Chuck. I do have Kontakt and will look into that for sure when I get there.
Thanks a bunch.

[jfraizer]

Jen

I experimented with this some time ago. I have a Roland midi pickup layin around here somewhere still today. I no longer have the GR20 system that it goes with... I believe the Roland is the best system I found, largely because it responds best to your playing. Besides being a live unit, you can send midi data ( record )to your sequencer software, whatever you're using via the GR20 midi out. You can then send the data ( playback )either back to the GR20 or to just about any other synth. Also, the pickup itself just sticks ( adhesive )on to your guitar and never hurt the finish on any guitar that I had it installed on. The adhesive allows you to move the pickup around some to optimize for your guitar and doesn't require the setup from a repair shop or anything. Pretty simple really...

I no longer do this because I just do my guitars in audio anymore. Its actually much quicker for me. But thats just me. I have been experimenting with guitars done on my keyboard as I have heard some things done that way that are quite amazing! But I am finding that you must think like a guitar player when playing the keyboard.

HTH
Keith

Thanks Keith. Good to know that your guitars were not blemished from the adhesive on the pickup. I am a little concerned about that. I was looking to go the midi route for VI's cause I think it will be quicker for me to get whats in my head to the computer via the guitar rather than the keyboard. Will probably still do my guitars in audio.

[Kolstad]

Thanks Jazzstan

Looking at the Roland GK-3 Guitar Pickup and the Axon AX 50 controller. When you read the manual for the pickup they tell you to only use with GK compatible devices. Any reason why these two wouldn't be compatible? 13 pin so I should be good, right?


After doing some more reading, the arched top is the reason for the Les Paul not being compatible with some other set ups. And Steve, ya gotta love em

The Roland GK-3 pickup and the Axon AX50 are compatible. I use it and it works hassle free.. yes, 13pin and you are good to go.

The GK-3 is not great on a Les Paul, due to the arched top, but you CAN install the Ghost system in a les paul and even the Roland. It's meant just to tape on in the beginning to test the position, but it's better to install it in the guitar after a while. Here it is on a Gold Top http://evenharmonic.com/videos/gtak_overview

Many say the synth ready guitars tracks better due to the better integration of the 13pin pickup, but that hasn't been my experience after trying both. The GK-3 can work just as well, if you mount it right IMO.

The 13pin system picks up the signal from the vibrations of your guitar strings and converts that to a midi signal (which contains no sound, only digital 1's and 0's, like any computer). The midi signal is used to trigger the samples in a synth or Vi, just like on a midi keyboard. So the 13pin does not actually carry the actual sound from your guitar, but transforms it into a midi signal, which the software can read. You can record your guitar signal along with the midi, though.

Be prepared for a learning curve on these things, but once you've got it set up properly, the reward is great!

Feel free to ask q's in this thread. I'll do my best to chime in. I'm not the greatest expert, but I've been through this myself to a point where it's working for me.

[mojobone]

Um, no, the 13 pin output also includes the hex output (six P/Us summed to mono, conversion doesn't happen 'til it gets to the box) but only Roland VG systems use that (summed hex output) for much of anything. Axon's technology is a little faster and works just fine with Roland GK3 hex P/U as an add-on. Check out Brian Moore's 13-pin MIDI guitars, too.

[Kolstad]

Ahh yes you're right Mojo, the conversion first happens in the box, not in the pickup system.
I've also heard the Brian Moore guitars are good value for the money, but haven't tried one, though.

[jazzstan]

... When you read the manual .....

We don't read no stinkin' manuals!!! ROLF!!

[jfraizer]

The Roland GK-3 pickup and the Axon AX50 are compatible. I use it and it works hassle free.. yes, 13pin and you are good to go.

The GK-3 is not great on a Les Paul, due to the arched top, but you CAN install the Ghost system in a les paul and even the Roland. It's meant just to tape on in the beginning to test the position, but it's better to install it in the guitar after a while. Here it is on a Gold Top http://evenharmonic.com/videos/gtak_overview

Many say the synth ready guitars tracks better due to the better integration of the 13pin pickup, but that hasn't been my experience after trying both. The GK-3 can work just as well, if you mount it right IMO.

The 13pin system picks up the signal from the vibrations of your guitar strings and converts that to a midi signal (which contains no sound, only digital 1's and 0's, like any computer). The midi signal is used to trigger the samples in a synth or Vi, just like on a midi keyboard. So the 13pin does not actually carry the actual sound from your guitar, but transforms it into a midi signal, which the software can read. You can record your guitar signal along with the midi, though.

Be prepared for a learning curve on these things, but once you've got it set up properly, the reward is great!

Feel free to ask q's in this thread. I'll do my best to chime in. I'm not the greatest expert, but I've been through this myself to a point where it's working for me.

Thanks a million for all the information Magne. You have been a huge help on this. I just started with the whole VI composing thing this year. My mind has absorbed so much information recently, been around some learning curves with a bunch of new software etc....... I look forward to the near future when everything is in place and is second nature to me. I just got some EWQL software and am really loving the sounds and all the possibilities. Very cool stuff

Um, no, the 13 pin output also includes the hex output (six P/Us summed to mono, conversion doesn't happen 'til it gets to the box) but only Roland VG systems use that (summed hex output) for much of anything. Axon's technology is a little faster and works just fine with Roland GK3 hex P/U as an add-on. Check out Brian Moore's 13-pin MIDI guitars, too.

Thanks mojobone
Will probably go with the Axon since it is faster. Would like to get a midi guitar too, but $$ not in the budget. Actually, the guitar interface isn't in the budget either, but ya gotta have priorities right?

We don't read no stinkin' manuals!!! ROLF!!

My problem sometimes.

[fullbirdmusic]

Badass thread - I've always wondered how that MIDI guitar technology was progressing and didn't want to invest in it if it wouldn't work without a lot of tweaking with hardware. I'm going to have to look into it!

Thanks to everyone here for sharing the information!

[gphall]

Hi I have found the Godin guitar with a built in synth pick-up rearly good and I use the nylon strung version so I can play large spanish sound-scapes i use it with a Roland GR20 it has a built in 12 pin connection and a jack connection as well for untreated sound, I also use 2 proteus sound moduels, but I have to be careful as unlike a keyboard it picks up fret noise and string movements but I can get rid of this by editing from a sequencer as they show up as low volume notes, but as with a lot of sound effects they have loads of sounds that you will never use, I have found a good way to get a good string sound by using the GR20 and the 2 proteus moduels, I like it and in a way it sounds kinda querky.
I also use a synth pich up on a old Shergold 6 string bass which is fretted up to the B and fretless from there on, put through some effects. its tuned to a guitar EADGBE except its an octave down playing some Flamenco with this makes it sound like a express train its awsome especialy through some Acoustic Image combos..I have just joined Taxi and live in the UK so HI and best wishes...Pete www.gphall.com