WE DARED re-write, re-mix per your comments

[deantaylor]

...
Thanks everyone.
I rewrote the verse2 lyric, Martin resang and Dick remixed per your previous comments.
How do you like it now?
Is it ready for film-tv? Any mix issues? Any other problems or weaknesses?

http://www.mp3unsigned.com/showmp3.asp?mp3id=63508

Dean, Dick Klein (slowdance), Martin Lewis
--------------------------------------------

WE DARED
© by Richard Klein and Dean Brantley Taylor

VERSE
Me and my best friend set out to make our dreams
We couldn't wait on high school, we were ready at sixteen
We knew the odds were impossible, but we were young and didn’t care
On the road, fighting unknown, searching for something rare
We dared

CHORUS
We took a chance, racing with romance
Playing guitar, trying to go far
Trying to grab a point of a rising star
So rare, so rare
So rare, so rare, we dared

VERSE
Sharing laughs and tears, times I won’t forget
Our big dreams never came, but we still say “no regrets”
When it got tough, when our fingers bled, we kept a steely glare
Crawling along, out there beyond when the sign said Beware
We dared

CHORUS

BRIDGE
Never met The Boss. Never kissed a Hollywood star
No Grammies, no groupies. Didn't seem fair, but at least, at least, we dared

CHORUS

OUTRO
Playing guitar like ringing a bell
Hey Bo, we gave them hell
So rare, so rare, we dared

[Romeo Diego]

Hi I think this has a good vibe and I would actually like to hear it with a female vocal think it would make it really unique.

Have you ever heard of Novel Vague?

A vocal like the lead singer.

Not saying this vocal isn't good it is and fits well but sometimes a contrast is cool too.

RD

[rnrmachine]

Hi guys,

I think the song is really good, Lyrics and Music, I like the "Joe Cocker" sounding vocals but the pitch problems in them are a bit rough. I do like emotional vocals like these even when out of pitch. MANY people do, it is the other style of singing that goes over well, either emotional or technical. You RARELY hear a mix of both that works. I can't even think of a someone that uses technical and emotional at the same time. There may be singers that sond like they do, but if you truly know vocals well, then you know the technical ones, even when they fake the emotional blast oh so well they are still "technically" doing it.

This singer is a for real emotional singer, but just needs to rein in some of the pitch issues. Maybe it's not pitch issues either... Maybe he needs to sing with the song more, like a practcing band would, run through the song every practice and, after time, then he will wear the song like his favorite pair of jeans.

In summation: I think that is my issue... he isn't wearing the song like his favorite pair of jeans. It's not flowing like he is well practiced at it. I hear this OFTEN in my own vocal tracks when I record them. I often find myself practicing a song here and their, in my head and in reality before I finally finsih the vocal. Sometimes I stop before I should because they are good enough and I am tired of working on the song. I just wish I could see when I do that better. It is soo much easier to see it in other peoples works then my own.

Don't give up, I think this could be really good, on the second and third listening it doesn't sound as bad as the first impression did. Also, my first listen was in my "neccessary evil" speakers. My second and 3rd listen was on my Mains.

Rob

[Casey H]

...
Thanks everyone.
I rewrote the verse2 lyric, Martin resang and Dick remixed per your previous comments.
How do you like it now?
Is it ready for film-tv? Any mix issues? Any other problems or weaknesses?

http://www.mp3unsigned.com/showmp3.asp?mp3id=63508

Dean, Dick Klein (slowdance), Martin Lewis
--------------------------------------------

WE DARED
© by Richard Klein and Dean Brantley Taylor

VERSE
Me and my best friend set out to make our dreams
We couldn't wait on high school, we were ready at sixteen
We knew the odds were impossible, but we were young and didn’t care
On the road, fighting unknown, searching for something rare
We dared

CHORUS
We took a chance, racing with romance
Playing guitar, trying to go far
Trying to grab a point of a rising star
So rare, so rare
So rare, so rare, we dared

VERSE
Sharing laughs and tears, times I won’t forget
Our big dreams never came, but we still say “no regrets”
When it got tough, when our fingers bled, we kept a steely glare
Crawling along, out there beyond when the sign said Beware
We dared

CHORUS

BRIDGE
Never met The Boss. Never kissed a Hollywood star
No Grammies, no groupies. Didn't seem fair, but at least, at least, we dared

CHORUS

OUTRO
Playing guitar like ringing a bell
Hey Bo, we gave them hell
So rare, so rare, we dared

Hi Dean
I enjoyed this.

I also thought the vocal was pitchy at times though I'm not the best judge of pitch.

I think you might be able to make this an "a la" Springsteen - e.g. Glory Days and other songs from the Born In The USA album. But you may want to hire a vocalist to pull that off. To me, here the singer is trying to force out something that's not natural to him like an actor doing a foreign accent. If I'm wrong there, sorry. It's funny that you have a lyric "never met the Boss" and I'm saying it should be a Springsteen sound-like.

Structurally, going to instrumental before what's labeled as chorus here might be a problem IMHO. Coming out of the verse if you don't go right to a hook-y chorus, you could be 'done'. The structure makes your chorus sound like a bridge. I'd rather see you go right from "we dare" into a chorus with that phrase.

I do think "Glory Days" is a good model to look at. I'm going to go listen to it now to see if what I'm saying here makes any sense.

Post-edit... Here is a link to it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVltHY-H038

One thing I'm became more and more aware of these past 1-2 years is that a big part of "ready for film/TV" is who or what is it "a la"... After listening to Glory Days again, I'd go all out making this a replacement track. Of course, that's not the only song to possibly model after- just the one that immediately hit me. You might want to emulate the keyboard sound from it too.

Best,
Casey

[deantaylor]

Thanks Romeo. Interesting idea. Might have been a good one for that new Joan Jett movie.

Thanks Rob. I kept changing the lyric on Martin, so that may be it, I never did let him get comfortable with it. He's willing to do a re-sing, so we'll probably do that .. it usually only gets better with practice.

Thanks Casey. I almost asked if anyone thought we should go for a Bruce replacement track with this. I'm game for it, but it's mainly up to Dick .. more work for the producer. He designed it more like Eddie and the Cruisers, which is close to Bruce, but probably not as many listings call for Eddie. Hear what you're saying on the gap between verse and chorus ... not standard.

[Martin_Lewis]

Thanks for the vocal suggestions, but I will need a bit more help concerning the pitch issues that have been mentioned. If you could point out the specific words or phrases that are problem areas, I could try and take a different approach. I want to give the songwriters the best possible vocal and I am thankful to the folks that are willing to give advice. Thanks, again.

[rnrmachine]

Thanks for the vocal suggestions, but I will need a bit more help concerning the pitch issues that have been mentioned. If you could point out the specific words or phrases that are problem areas, I could try and take a different approach. I want to give the songwriters the best possible vocal and I am thankful to the folks that are willing to give advice. Thanks, again.

Well, the song doesn't flow very well through out, but practicing it would undboutly fix those issues..

I hear a "click/pop" type artifact that happens between 0:19-0:20 and sounds like it is from the vocal. Like 2 clips put together and not faded into properly.

I swear at 0:23 it literally sounds like you looked down at your paper in your hand to see what the next lyrics were. "We were" is the cuplrate in the line "We were ready at 16" Maybe it was just a low part or a cut paste from a different take. I hear stuff like this throughout the song.

The line where you sing "We knew the odds were impossible we were young and didn't care" isn't bad on it's own. For the most part is in tune and acceptable for a emotional singer. Just it is wierd with the music, out of time so out of the "feel" of the song. All I can say is it literally sounds like I am at a band practice and they are working on a new song that the singer is just getting the grips on how it is going to go but is learning it yet.

Skip ahead to "Playing guitar, trying to go far...." when you first start the line, Play is sung like an emotional singer would sing it but very poorly. It ruins the next part which then does start to sound like you are looking at your lyric sheet again.

All of that aside, the one thing I want you to focus on and listen too is how relaxed you get when you are singing "trying to go far..." at 1:01 although it sounds like you aren't quite sure of the lyrics you actually start to pull me into the song. I believe you now, I believe you that "you are trying to go far" and when you hit "star" you descend the scale and that vibratto kicks in you sold me the farm on that. I LOVE that stuff dude.. do more of that and you will go far. hahaha The next part until 1:15 I am into it. Once you hit "we dared" you lost me again, as a listener. If you can sing the song more like that, "trying to go far" and when you hit star you could literally move me emotionally in a good way, but you are not going to do that without practicing it. You are much more relaxed at the mentioned good part. And if you sang that with a bit more authority, meaning convince me you have sang that part a bunch of times so you can run through it soo well, that it sounds to like you're the master of that song. Instead of showing me you are not sure what you are singing there.

I am dead serious when I say I will sing it in my head over and over. I will write the lyrics out over and over, something I NEED to do more of myself. You should KNOW the lyrics, KNOW the song like it is you. Don't rush it.. if it takes a couple weeks of singing it in your head just to get it smooth then that is what it takes. I used to practice with my band 3 days a week and we would rotate the songs in practice so every song we do has been practiced at least once or twice that week. This went on for years. So, sitting down and singing a song outright that someone else has wrote is a bit unrealistic for a singer that isn't a technical singer. Technical singers, which most work for hire musicians are, can do it fast because they train pitch everyday. Some of the better emoitional singers still do vocal excercises everyday although it's pretty much out the window when they sing.

I have Roland V-Vocal and I will use that to tune in my first couple tries at the song, then I will listen back to that god aweful first try... but at least it is in tune and I will get that melody stuck in my head, then go back and resing that song once I know the lyrics a ton better. Try that dude...

Rob

Sorry for the Ebook, but you guys have obviously put a lot of time and effort into this and I wanted to help as best I could. And usually when I get to the forum, I am lonely and talkative.. just be glad you aren't sitting next to me.. you'd have no ears left after my chewing was done <---- (btw, that isn't me laughing, that is me chewing your ears off LOL) YAP YAP YAP

[Martin_Lewis]

Rob, thank you, thank you. You are the man, you told me exactly what i needed to know. I will get on those suggestions.

[deantaylor]

Hey Rob,

You rock man. Thanks for taking the time. You've got good ears. The only thing I had noticed was that "We were" in the line "We were ready at 16" was low. Was gonna see if Dick could bump that up, but wanted to see if others heard it too.

Well, I also noticed that Martin has the potential to perform the heck out of this song. Thanks for helping him and us get more out of it.

Dean

[slowdance]

Thank you RD, Rob and Casey....appreciate your help on the mix....
Regards,
Dick