Taxi is close to worthless for singer/songwriters

[Casey H]

I hope everyone will take a deep breath and chill a little. Things have gotten out of hand. As my kids would say to me, "CHILLAX!!"

Suggestions:

If you want to have a discussion about songwriting "rules", well known songs that break them, and whether or not new songwriters should ever break rules, start a thread about that in the appropriate section of the forum.

Kevin, if you want feedback on another song, why not start a new thread in P2P for that?

And then.... hopefully keep those discussions civil. Opinions are opinions and folks can agree to disagree... Check the guns at the door.

Just my 2 cents,
Casey

[Ajetpackoperation]

How long have you been in the business? You guys are arguing with me like I am making this shit up? I am not going to explain this... you figure it out. I am sorry I even told you as much as I did with the way you guys are being assholes to me about these things.Rob

For the life of me, I don't mean to say your making this up - just that I've got no clue about any of it. Most of the stuff I listen to is Modern Classical, non-Western folk and traditional, improvised instrumental, or avant-garde/experimental stuff. Those along with 8 and 16-bit era video game music is my reference point for making pop music.

It's a screwed up engine to use but it gets the job done.

[kvnlnt]

Good point Casey, maybe I should start another thread about the song I'm working on...and thanks Steve for addressing it...I was trying to bring things back inline by providing everybody the ability to help me with a song I am working verses one that we've already beat to death...

Everybody, let's drop the who dissed who stuff and just realize that we all already agree. There are good song writing patterns and it's good to understand them...as ML has said before, you must understand the rules to know how to break them. I that says it all...

I hope everyone will take a deep breath and chill a little. Things have gotten out of hand. As my kids would say to me, "CHILLAX!!"

Suggestions:

If you want to have a discussion about songwriting "rules", well known songs that break them, and whether or not new songwriters should ever break rules, start a thread about that in the appropriate section of the forum.

Kevin, if you want feedback on another song, why not start a new thread in P2P for that?

And then.... hopefully keep those discussions civil. Opinions are opinions and folks can agree to disagree... Check the guns at the door.

Just my 2 cents,
Casey

[fret17]

Rob............I asked you for the origin of this so called rule that you never rhyme the first 2 lines in a song....your answer was read some books....well let's see....I've read about 30 books that I can count in front of me on my book shelves on the subject of lyrics and music and the industry....couldn.t find it in any of those....maybe I missed the one you're referring to.....if you can let me know the title of the book and maybe the page number, that would be a big help...Thanks

[ottlukk]

"the smell of testosterone, lingers on this forum
hard to figure out, who's the artist, who's the moron"

well guys & ladies, that's the first two lines to my next song, a tribute tune to this thread. Feel free to add lyrics at your leisure (I got stuck after two lines). Want to thank Dorothy & Fret17 & Jetpack & Casey for their comments. This thread got so long, it got a bit hard to keep track of who was referencing who's posts. I think the aforementioned were referencing mine, and I appreciate it.
I'll throw in one unreferenced suggestion. There were many posts on this thread that were condescending. Even worse, they ENJOYED (figured out the caps key, yeah me!) being condescending. I believe that the vast majority of the people who post on peer to peer have already done their homework, are passionate about their music, and are willing to help each other out. They no longer need sermons on how to do it.
hope everyone notices that I rhymed the first two lines.
Ott

[bonejack]

What the heck is happening in this thread? I am surprised at the hostility. I get that from other forums, but have rarely seen it here. Come on people, play nice.

[ottlukk]

Went & listened to "Jump The Shark" on your MySpace page. Very nice. You & Casey are correct.
Ott

[kvnlnt]

Good one Ott....I know you are referring to me with the caps lock and condescending reference. I apologize if I came off that way. In fact I believe I've apologized a couple of times now both on this post and in private messaging. I'd also like to point out that I haven't called anybody any names yet have endured many and received no apologies in return. So I find that a little frustrating...especially since "being condescending" is a rather subjective accusation where as calling somebody "unprofessional" etc...is not. None of you know me....and if you did, you'd know that I'm a jokester and that I say things with a chuckle and a smile...not anywhere close to what it has been cast in this forum. That's the limitation of this medium. Also, I thought your joke was funny below but for the record I don't believe anybody's a moron nor should anybody be called names. We all obviously have some vested interest to have kept this thread going so long...it's struck a chord so-to-speak and shows that hey we are all a little frustrated. For me it's comforting to know that there are so many of you out there like me working so hard and spending so much time and effort to develop their craft...it's really neat, it really is. So thank you for having taken the time to share your thoughts with me.

"the smell of testosterone, lingers on this forum
hard to figure out, who's the artist, who's the moron"

well guys & ladies, that's the first two lines to my next song, a tribute tune to this thread. Feel free to add lyrics at your leisure (I got stuck after two lines). Want to thank Dorothy & Fret17 & Jetpack & Casey for their comments. This thread got so long, it got a bit hard to keep track of who was referencing who's posts. I think the aforementioned were referencing mine, and I appreciate it.
I'll throw in one unreferenced suggestion. There were many posts on this thread that were condescending. Even worse, they ENJOYED (figured out the caps key, yeah me!) being condescending. I believe that the vast majority of the people who post on peer to peer have already done their homework, are passionate about their music, and are willing to help each other out. They no longer need sermons on how to do it.
hope everyone notices that I rhymed the first two lines.
Ott

[ottlukk]

KV:
With this comment, I hope to put my participation to rest, at least in this thread. I also try to throw a bit of humor and irony into my threads, sometimes not so successfully. I hope you recall that way earlier in this thread, I complimented you on your passion regarding your music.
I share your frustration. Got three rejects from TAXI this week alone. One of the screeners complimented me on using a professional singer on the track and then, on the grid, gave the vocals a "7". Why throw a compliment at the singer, and then give her a "7"? I mention this here because in one of the very many songwriting books I've read, the author said "if they compliment you on the quality of your singer, they're really saying they think your song sucks". Still another author might interpret it differently, who knows? There's a lot of lady luck involved.
There's many different ways to make your music connect. At the end of this thread, I sort of regret that I used words to disconnect.
I really do wish you (and everyone else on this board) the best.
Ott

[rnrmachine]

Rob............I asked you for the origin of this so called rule that you never rhyme the first 2 lines in a song....your answer was read some books....well let's see....I've read about 30 books that I can count in front of me on my book shelves on the subject of lyrics and music and the industry....couldn.t find it in any of those....maybe I missed the one you're referring to.....if you can let me know the title of the book and maybe the page number, that would be a big help...Thanks

Seriously? Thirty books on one subject? I find that diffcult to believe, although I am NOT calling you a liar, it's not outside the realm of possiblilites.. if ya bought a book a year that would be over a 30 year time span.

I couldn't possibly tell you which book I read specific things in... I have read MAYBE 3 books on songwriting from start to finish in my lifetime. I own 5 different books two of which are lost to me at the very moment and I didn't buy all 5 of them, I would have to dig for them. So IF you actually read 30.. it is a pretty safe bet you don't need to take any advice from anyone when it comes to songwriting.

I did look back at my original statment and how I used it. And I realized I never finished the thought. Which was going to be.. never change rhyming schemes, duplicating them is a form of poetry and not inherant to songwriting. AND the most important I meant to continue there with was.. NEVER rhym in the first two lines when you first start song writing then follow with a rhym in the second 2 until you have mastered the skip a line rhym, because you tend too look like a beginner. They looked like beginner lines to me and I felt he (Kevin) was above that. If I didn't I would have kept my mouth shut.

I was only trying to help... I am not perfect, never claimed to be. I even go out of my way to warn people, my advice might be flawed and quite often it is only opinion and needs to be taken as such.

Rob

EDIT: I looked through the one book I thought the statement was in and could not find it.. IF I remember right it was talking about the learning process and you should not rhym the first 2 lines until you get better at rhyming every other line. SO I do apologize for that bad information. That was the only wrong thing I said, and that was because I didn't finish the thought. IF I ever do find it Fret I will PM it to you. I just might find it, because this is going to bug me... like a lost set of keys.