HH/RnB Instrumental listings

[billgers]

First Post!!

I realize the subject of how to arrange intrumentals has been covered somewhat already in the forums, but I want to ask specifically about HH and RnB. There are two listings currently in this vein and it has always seeemed awkward for me to do instrumentals in these idioms because the vocal is normally featured so prominently. HH in particular seems difficult because if you take out the main rap and all of the background rapping/shouting etc., there is not much left except perhaps a drum loop, a bass line and some synth stabbs. I suppose for RnB, I could provide some subtle riffs/melody with synth or ep or funky guitar.

So what's everybody's take on this? I've provided the listing verbiage below for whoever is interested:

NEW LISTING -- CONTEMPORARY R&B INSTRUMENTALS a la Usher, Beyonce, Ke$ha, Chris Brown, etc., needed by a very successful Production Music Library who has placements with ABC, CBS, NBC, WB, Disney, Discovery, Lifetime, Fox, USA, etc. Solid instrumental performances that express the feel and energy of this genre are what's being looked for here. Tracks can range between 1-4 minutes in length. Instrumental presentation must be top-notch! Do not submit tracks with vocals. Broadcast quality is necessary (excellent sounding home recordings are fine). Please submit one to three instrumentals online or per CD. All submissions will be screened and critiqued by TAXI and must be received no later than Monday, June 7, 2010.
TAXI # S100607RB

HIP-HOP INSTRUMENTALS a la Black Eyed Peas, Jay-Z, etc., needed by a very successful Production Music Library who has placements with ABC, CBS, NBC, WB, Disney, Discovery, Lifetime, Fox, USA, etc. Styles and moods can vary - all tempos are welcome. Tracks can range between 1-4 minutes in length. Vocal and instrumental presentation must be top-notch! Broadcast quality is necessary (excellent sounding home recordings are fine). Please submit one to three instrumentals online or per CD. All submissions will be screened on a YES/NO BASIS - NO CRITIQUES FROM TAXI - and must be received no later than Tuesday, June 8, 2010.
TAXI # Y100608HH

[AndyKotz]

Well... I get your point. It can be difficult. What I would do though is realize that the r&b submission states that the tracks be instrumental. R&B is easier to produce without orchestrated vocals (in my estimation) because you can add all sort of synth and/or rhythm textures leading in and out of sections.

The Hip Hop submission does state that "Vocal and instrumental presentation must be top-notch!"... So there you go! Submit with vocals... or you can record with vocals (and background) and only remove the lead track, leaving the choruses. That's an option...

Or just give them what they want... you're fighting with your impulse to hear the vocals (which I agree makes the track) but the customer has something in mind for it anyway or they wouldn't have asked for it... right?

Just lay down some slamming tracks!!!

[t4mh]

First Post!!

I realize the subject of how to arrange intrumentals has been covered somewhat already in the forums, but I want to ask specifically about HH and RnB. There are two listings currently in this vein and it has always seeemed awkward for me to do instrumentals in these idioms because the vocal is normally featured so prominently. HH in particular seems difficult because if you take out the main rap and all of the background rapping/shouting etc., there is not much left except perhaps a drum loop, a bass line and some synth stabbs. I suppose for RnB, I could provide some subtle riffs/melody with synth or ep or funky guitar.

So what's everybody's take on this? I've provided the listing verbiage below for whoever is interested:

NEW LISTING -- CONTEMPORARY R&B INSTRUMENTALS a la Usher, Beyonce, Ke$ha, Chris Brown, etc., needed by a very successful Production Music Library who has placements with ABC, CBS, NBC, WB, Disney, Discovery, Lifetime, Fox, USA, etc. Solid instrumental performances that express the feel and energy of this genre are what's being looked for here. Tracks can range between 1-4 minutes in length. Instrumental presentation must be top-notch! Do not submit tracks with vocals. Broadcast quality is necessary (excellent sounding home recordings are fine). Please submit one to three instrumentals online or per CD. All submissions will be screened and critiqued by TAXI and must be received no later than Monday, June 7, 2010.
TAXI # S100607RB

HIP-HOP INSTRUMENTALS a la Black Eyed Peas, Jay-Z, etc., needed by a very successful Production Music Library who has placements with ABC, CBS, NBC, WB, Disney, Discovery, Lifetime, Fox, USA, etc. Styles and moods can vary - all tempos are welcome. Tracks can range between 1-4 minutes in length. Vocal and instrumental presentation must be top-notch! Broadcast quality is necessary (excellent sounding home recordings are fine). Please submit one to three instrumentals online or per CD. All submissions will be screened on a YES/NO BASIS - NO CRITIQUES FROM TAXI - and must be received no later than Tuesday, June 8, 2010.
TAXI # Y100608HH

Better read the listing again.
Keith

[cardell]

Better read the listing again.
Keith

I can tell by what he wrote that he already understands this Keith.

So what's everybody's take on this?

This is an interesting problem. I'd be interested to hear what you come up with in the Peer to Peer section.

Stuart

[billgers]

Anybody with anything concrete so far? Keith - I take it your response was to Andy, since I was clear in my original post that the difficulty is creating a non-vocal version of a style that is typically awash in vocals. I aprecciate all of you weighing in on this.

I think the approach I have decided to follow (especially with the Hip Hop) is to fill out the arrangement with a touch more in terms of melodic or rhythmic elements per se as opposed to actual fully developed melodies. In other words, I'm adding just enough additional licks or hooks to make it more interesting without writing some melody that develops over 4 or 8 bars. Since fully developed melody like that doesn't seem to really be used in Hip-Hop (either vocally or with an instrument), it feels out-of-place to write a melody like that into the arrangement. However, short melodic fragments or repeated licks seem to be keep within the style of the music. With the RnB, fully developed melodies seem to be a able to work a little better, be it with a light guitar part or a soft synth lead.

[t4mh]

Exactly, didn't want you to get steered in the wrong direction as far as vocals go when the listing is very clear about it.

Suggestion: Try to find a melodic percussion voice or kit. Something that sounds completely different from your main percussion. Write some rap vocals. Play the melodic kit in the same rhythm as your rap vocals taking the place of the vocal part. Not saying this will work, just an idea to get you going.

HTH
Keith

[cardell]

Exactly, didn't want you to get steered in the wrong direction as far as vocals go when the listing is very clear about it.

Oh...I see...sorry Keith.

Stuart

[musicliner]

Bill,
Your questions lead me to believe that you probably haven't done much work in these genres previously.

What the listings are asking is a norm in those genres. I work with hip-hop and rnb artists and they expect to have music tracks (usually term is "beats") prepared upfront, which they use to develop rap or melody (in case of rnb).

Moving from melody/harmony driven music styles to the rhythm/beat/groove driven songs require mental decoupling, and is harder than it may seem.

All the best!

[slideboardouts]

Hi Bill,

I realize I'm a bit late on this thread as the due dates are past, but I figured I would chime in with some info for future listings and opportunities.

While I do a number of different genres now, urban music is certainly my "specialty" so to speak. I've had quite a few urban instrumentals signed and placed, so I think I can help you out and give you something concrete to go by when doing hip hop for TV.

First, I have totally different approaches for when I'm doing urban SONGS (with vocals) for film/tv and urban INSTRUMENTALS for film/tv. Different arrangements, different techniques, and even different sounds a lot of the times. Before I play one note, I decide whether I'm going to work on a film/tv instrumental or a track that will eventually be turned into a song.

Since you're asking about instrumentals for film/tv, I'll focus on that. Plus, doing instrumentals that will be turned into songs are easier to find a template for. Just turn on the radio.

With urban instrumentals for film/tv, you always have to keep in mind that you are scoring music to be used to enhance a picture. Don't get too side tracked or discombobulated by the hip hop you hear on the radio. Its quite a different approach when you are writing an instrumental. You are first and foremost trying to create a mood, not the "next new thing."

For the general sound, I usually find that its best to mix current sounding synths with some more traditional orchestral samples (use good samples). My personal favorites are string hits, orchestral chimes/tubular bells, choirs, glockenspiels, tremolo violins, and timpani. If you're not accustomed to working in the genre, it might be best to start using a drum loop (a good one, nothing cheesy) to get you in the right frame of mind and thinking rhythmically. If you have some cool percussion loops, try layering them on top of your main drum program/loop to get a really thick and dynamic beat.

For arrangement, I usually go about it two ways depending on what kind of track I am working on. If I'm working on a fun "party" type of hip hop track or a general "I'm a bad ass so get out of my way" sounding track, I usually will start with the hook, then go into a verse, then build back into the hook, then another verse, build back the hook and sting out. Each verse should be slightly different, and the second verse should be a little more developed than the first. It should keep the track growing and building, but still shouldn't have as much energy as your hook section.

A couple of tips on doing the hooks and verses:

What I usually like doing with the hook is doubling it at the beginning, but on the second one, add a little something extra. It could be a synth lead, a funky guitar lick... anything that causes the energy and momentum to increase. In the first verse, I usually like to have a couple of measures that are really sparse. Maybe just the percussion, bass, and a hit of some kind. That way, if an editor wants to use a track for people to talk over but wants it really sparse, he can just loop a couple measure of your track instead of looking for another "less busy" track to drop (i.e. somebody else's cue).

Now, If I'm doing a more dramatic, "elimination" type of hip hop cue, I'll often times arrange it like an "arc" where it starts sparse, builds up to a climax and then comes back down. However, I also will arrange the track where it builds constantly for about a minute, then goes into a really sparse verse-like section (to give the editor a place to loop for dialogue), and then start building again up to the sting. I'll often times repeat the same build at the end with just an extra section building to the sting to add some extra drama.

Below are a few examples. There are some "elimination" type cues, orchestral hip hop, and just a general hip hop track for film/tv. All of these have been signed, and most have been placed on TV shows.

http://www.taximusic.com/stream/332330/MasterPlan.mp3
http://www.taximusic.com/stream/288477/ ... hiTown.mp3
http://www.taximusic.com/stream/288991/Alcatraz.mp3
http://www.taximusic.com/stream/332329/GangstaGrind.mp3

HTH,
Steve

[mazz]

Hey Steve,

Great stuff! I can see why you're having such good success!

Cheers!

Mazz