Taxi songwriter critiques

[olbones]

I'm a new member of Taxi. I'm just a songwriter and don't profess to be a singer or very good musician. Further, I have no aspirations of ever being a star or big-name recording artist. I recorded my songs on a home recorder with a keyboard and sang them myself. When I joined up, I read the Taxi suggestions about how recordings need not be polished and even how some performers would rather hear raw songs, etc. So needless ot say, I was surprised when I got my TAXI critiques for my first submitted songs. The Taxi reviewers spent a lot of time talking about how pitchy my vocals were and the lack of feeling or how to polish the recording with better engineering, etc. Less time was spent on critiquing the quality of the song, lyrics, song structure, hooks, etc. In the end, they refused to submit them to the advertisers that I spent money to showcase for. What's up with this?

[oakman]

olbones,
I'm a new member as well. I think you have to take stuff like "performers would rather hear raw songs" with a grain of salt. There is some truth to that but given how this industry has evolved in recent years and given the need for Taxi to maintain the highest level of quality with the licensing sources, it's probably best to assume only the very best of "raw" is going to be forwarded. And I think your definition of "raw" might be a little different than Taxi's definition. I believe Michael Laskow and Robin Frederick talked about just that subject in Monday's show. Fortunately the shows are recorded and you can watch them here.
http://www.ustream.tv/user/TAXI_Music/videos
I haven't watched all of them, but almost all of them. They will give you a good understanding of what is expected. They even do live song critiques on some of the shows. Excellent stuff.
I have only one song uploaded to Taxi thus far because it's the only song I have that I think has a chance of being forwarded. Like yourself, I consider myself a songwriter with a meager set of musician skills. So I paid what I thought was a very reasonable amount of money to have a studio take one of my "raw" songs and turn it into a "not-raw-in-any-way" recording of my song. Time will tell if the song gets forwarded and better yet, licensed, but I think it has put me on the playing field where I wouldn't be with my home recordings.
Sorry to get so long-winded, but I should tell you that after watching Michael's show on Monday it does have me thinking about giving the home-studio method another go with a song I just wrote. The song is in my vocal range and if I incorporate some of the techniques they outlined it might have a chance.
Anyhow, hope this helps you.

[mojobone]

I think what's meant is that a simple demo can be effective. You needn't hire a chamber orchestra for sweetening, in other words, but even if you opt for the simplest possible demo, the performance still has to be there, and the emotion of the song has to come across to the listener. The standards of your genre can come into play here, as well; pitchiness isn't well-tolerated in radio dance/pop, these days, but if you're alt-country/Americana, you can be as off-key as Hayes Carll was on Austin City Limits the other night. I love raw demos, myself, but I was ready to pull the plug on him, despite the amazing songs, heh.

scroll down this page for a taste:

http://www.austincitylimits.org/3605-ro ... ayes-carll

[FMstereo]

I'm a new taxi member too, and have not yet submitted anything as I've been getting critiques and trying to get my songs into the best shape before spending any money on recording demos.

I've been to a couple of Jason Blume songwriting workshops, and his view is that many producers can't really imagine a raw demo polished up, and it's our job to give them a decent demo to give our songs a fair chance. He played us a demo he'd had produced and then the final song that was released, and most of us thought the demo was as good as the final song as it was so well done.

I guess that unless you have a really amazing song that would shine through any way it was demoed, you simply have to produce great demos to compete with everyone else's great demos.

Seems like those of us who aren't musicians or who don't have home studios are on the back foot, but I think that's the reality.

Cheers

[onglee]

if you're going to record just vocals on a piano or a guitar track, your performance has to be stellar. a bad performance may often distract the listener from listening to the song's potential.

[standardtunes]

It's my sense that--both with respect to Taxi and where the music business is--you have to forget about "raw," period. For any given opportunity, your music is competing with music produced by pros who can turn out a finished, ready-for-broadcast piece, or a near, could-be-released-tomorrow single, at home, almost at will. The competition is too deep and the bar is too high for raw: that's my not particularly well-informed opinion. BUT, I believe that if you keep writing great songs, something eventually breaks your way.
John

[rnrmachine]

There was a time when having a raw song was the choice, it had to be, with SOOO many people saying that in MANY older books. Also, I was told that time and time again by a number of reputable people. 12+ years ago when I was heavy into the music scene. The reasoning was... don't let your crappy production skills get in the way of their vision. With the quality of today's demos and the MANY MANY songwriters there are out there now you really need excellent home recordings and or semi pro demo quality.

With what I have learned about today's way of doing things... I believe the philosophy today is... don't let your crappy playing ability, crappy productions skills and or crappy vocals get in the way of YOUR vision. They NEED to see YOUR vision... What I mean by "your vision" is... when you first heard that song in your head, music, lyrics, whichever came first don't matter. You NEED to have the ability to SHOW these people how you heard it and WHY it should be treated as a hit song. You/we have so many people listening to the crap before it even gets to the artist that it HAS to be good. To the point of, the song could almost, if not be a success as is... pretty retarded imho... BUT these are the rules we now play by. Games change, rules change and if you want to play the game you need to keep up with the rules a they change. A good example is the NFL... how many rule changes have happened since Football first started? And they are going through some drastic changes once again. There was a time when there wasn't even passing. LOL President Roosevelt is called "The President that saved Football" google it if you're interested.

Rules are changing and so should Taxi imho (in both ways*)... A&R guys of today have learned lessons from the past... you're only as good as your last album/song holds just as true for them as well as the artist. IF they are going to go out on a limb with something... they want that branch to be STRONG AS HELL!! Which is understandable to a point.

*Taxi REALLY should to change the way they advertise that because, imho, it's getting to the point now of being VERY misleading. It was MUCH more true when they originally put it that way... "you only need to be this good" type thing is now a bit misleading. Imho, they should put something in there warning that if you are a songwriter and lack playing skills, you NEED to have access to semi pro musicians at the worst and pro if you really want to get somewhere OR have the money to pay for it. It does look like a "bait and swap" tactic... don't it? After all, telling you that you don't need to be that good, taking your money, then telling you you need to be good is BS at best. Imho though... the people that get this reality check, brush it off, learn the rules and play by them... are the people who find success!!! Through Taxi and outside of Taxi I found some small success because of Taxi and it looks like I am about to get my first "upfront sync fee" as well as performance royalties... outside of Taxi BUT in a sense because I joined Taxi a few years back.

I am on my 3rd year as a Taxi member. I went 2 years, then let my time expire then rejoined after 1 1/2 - 2years. I do believe in Taxi overall or I wouldn't have rejoined. You're just finding out the hard way... the rules have changed. Obvious quantized drum samples, when trying to "sell songs" you might figure... what's it matter? They'll get the jist, right? NOPE... apparently people today don't have the vision of people from yesterday. They need real drums in order to hear real drums. HAHA In their defense though... they'd rather have nothing, again and again, and look a fool then hand something over and be the fool.

Sorry for the long reply but I felt, after proof reading, it should be left as is or I would have deleted some.

Rob

EDIT: I edited the post a bit here and there at 3:17pm Sat Nov 27th 2010. Also, IF I am wrong about anything I said PLEASE reply with the practical "Who, What, Where, When, Why and How"... Don't just accuse me of something and fail prove it. I truly feel this is accurate sound advice and fact based opinions on MANY years of research. IF I am failing to see the full spectrum I would LIKE it to be shown properly to me so I am no longer misguided about how I feel or the directions I am taking... and GOD FORBID I mislead someone else in the process!!!

[jonathansorensen]

I am a musician and have the chops for guitar/bass but my vocals are just passable in most situations. I've thought about this alot and I go to 2 or 3 other conferences for feedback besides Taxi. The truth is, 90% of the producers or whomever out there either don't have the time or the ear to envision what a song might be. When Michael says it doesn't have to be a huge production it just means it doesn't have to be a lot of instruments. But the instrument and the vocal have to be outa the park. In a songwriting feedback group I recently heard a simple piano part with a female vocal over it. Exactly what they talk about as a "simple" production. However this singer sang with perfect pitch, beautiful phrasing, and personality. And her voice was distinct and original. I also asked her what mic they used and she said, I don't know, I think a Neumann. I actually used her engineer/producer on a project later and believe me, he's really really good. So what they mean is the production doesn't have to be complicated.

However, the simpler the production the more the instrument and vocal performance has to outshine everyone else.
Given the fact that you're competing with some stellar musician/songwriters, or people who pay for stellar musicians, I would recommend that you begin learning some fundamentals of recording/engineering and production. And start collaborating with other singers, guitar players, etc.

I recommend Chris Ronan Murphy's recording classes at taxi or take his Home Recording Bootcamp.
if you have a song you really believe in I also recommend a producer in LA named Jon Chi.

But, all that said, if you love writing and you're not going to stop writing, don't let the industry beat you up. It is where all the money is but real art? It is where you find it.

[rnrmachine]

I am a musician and have the chops for guitar/bass but my vocals are just passable in most situations. I've thought about this alot and I go to 2 or 3 other conferences for feedback besides Taxi. The truth is, 90% of the producers or whomever out there either don't have the time or the ear to envision what a song might be. When Michael says it doesn't have to be a huge production it just means it doesn't have to be a lot of instruments. But the instrument and the vocal have to be outa the park. In a songwriting feedback group I recently heard a simple piano part with a female vocal over it. Exactly what they talk about as a "simple" production. However this singer sang with perfect pitch, beautiful phrasing, and personality. And her voice was distinct and original. I also asked her what mic they used and she said, I don't know, I think a Neumann. I actually used her engineer/producer on a project later and believe me, he's really really good. So what they mean is the production doesn't have to be complicated.

However, the simpler the production the more the instrument and vocal performance has to outshine everyone else.
Given the fact that you're competing with some stellar musician/songwriters, or people who pay for stellar musicians, I would recommend that you begin learning some fundamentals of recording/engineering and production. And start collaborating with other singers, guitar players, etc.

I recommend Chris Ronan Murphy's recording classes at taxi or take his Home Recording Bootcamp.
if you have a song you really believe in I also recommend a producer in LA named Jon Chi.

But, all that said, if you love writing and you're not going to stop writing, don't let the industry beat you up. It is where all the money is but real art? It is where you find it.

I agree and like what you said here.

Rob

[evanmcgill]

I'm a new member of Taxi. I'm just a songwriter and don't profess to be a singer or very good musician. Further, I have no aspirations of ever being a star or big-name recording artist. I recorded my songs on a home recorder with a keyboard and sang them myself. When I joined up, I read the Taxi suggestions about how recordings need not be polished and even how some performers would rather hear raw songs, etc. So needless ot say, I was surprised when I got my TAXI critiques for my first submitted songs. The Taxi reviewers spent a lot of time talking about how pitchy my vocals were and the lack of feeling or how to polish the recording with better engineering, etc. Less time was spent on critiquing the quality of the song, lyrics, song structure, hooks, etc. In the end, they refused to submit them to the advertisers that I spent money to showcase for. What's up with this?

I didn't have a chance to read everyone else's posting, but being on TAXI since February, here is what I have learned: IT'S SO COMPETITIVE OUT THERE! With that said, you have to be in the top 1% to be submitted and get deals and even not all those people do. I'm not there yet and many others aren't, but these forums and those critiques will get you where you need to be. Now, on that note, don't assume one critique is the end all. Some one else will listen and may have another opinion, but that is the entire music business and not TAXI. TAXI wants to forward you. I've talked to screeners. Many people assume they have to default to a "NO" unless they can find a reason to say yes, but that isn't true. Great songs rise to the top even without a great demo, but the bar is set high and that is why songs need great demos.

If you can find it out there somewhere (maybe at originalsongwriterdemos.com), the demo for "Bless The Broken Road" even though just on piano with not so good vocals, you can hear it was going to be a hit. It just had the "IT" factor. Yeah it sat on the shelf for a while, but so many songs have. Anyways, my point is don't let one thing discourage you. Keep it up and learn as you go!