Ric Menck on Taxi TV Live!

[wickedsmaht]

Defining Americana Music: http://aweber.com/b/1x8BZ

Apologies for getting all fan-boy, but I'm super-excited for this episode, and not just because I'm a big Americana fan. My main bag is Power Pop, and Ric is a legendary drummer in this realm, both with his own band Velvet Crush and playing with Matthew Sweet, including on the seminal "Girlfriend" album. He's also a very songwriter-friendly drummer, as evidenced by his work with Aimee Mann and The Pernice Brothers.

I met him at this year's rally (and also 20 years ago when he was working at a record store in Providence) and both encounters confirmed that he is just a swell, humble guy, and very generous with his time and knowledge.

I'll be tuning in for sure; see you there!

[eeoo]

Thanks for the heads up Wicked, I will be checking it out!

eo

[kenvkayez]

Hi, new to this forum and just re-joined Taxi... on the chat today there was a lot of talk about having a list of Americana artists to help understand "what is Americana" better. I just wanted to pass along the idea of checking out the Americana Music Association site, and artists and songs who appeared on a compilation called "Americana Music Association Awards Sampler" (saw it on Amazon) - they include John Hiatt, Buddy and Julie Miller, Steve Earle, James McMurtry, the Avett Brothers, Jim Lauderdale, and others. A listen to these songs confirms what I heard about many of the qualities that Ric considered to exemplify "Americana." Also confirms that one of my own tunes is probably NOT Americana as I had thought it might be ...Hope this is helpful - Vincent -

[Kolstad]

THAT was a real musicians talk! Really cool with such a laid back knowledgable person.. it was particularly interesting to hear the expert take on Americana in contrast to some general ideas in the music industry about it.. makes it a little bit tricky, as it's the expert who's screening, but the music supervisors might be asking for music in the general vein.. anyway, at least if it passes Rick's ears we at least know our music feels genuine

[hwoodum]

This was a great show! A laid back conversation with a really humble guy revealing what he knows from years of experience and exposure. Very inspiring. It is a tough one to define because it really is so broad. I read many definitions before I formulated mine and posted it in my first blog on my site. One definition that really helped me was by AMA exec. Jed Hilly, and you can read it here if you are interested:
http://www.the9513.com/americana-music- ... a-mission/

To label it as Alt. Country is just a little too limiting, I think. It may have been adapted from that, but there are really so many other elements especially when you consider the artists classified under that genre. I think what also makes it a challenge to define is that it continues to evolve. One thing for sure is it's definitely about authenticity.

[billg1]

I've posted this before, but I really think that some of the best songs being written today are in the Americana Charts
http://americanaradio.org/ama/displaych ... =lw&dtkey=

[mojobone]

The best and worst thing about Americana is that it's not hit-driven. I'll be sure to check out the show and links; if you're an Americana fan or content creator, you should already know about http://nodepression.com

[mojobone]

First thing? Best Taxi Live ever. Ric's the sort of person I could happily yak with for hours. (Michael, too, but that goes without sayin', <3)

I never liked the Alt. Country moniker any more than Alternative Rock, and for many of the same reasons, though I'll allow as how a subset of both Americana and Country artists perform music that could be accurately described as such. (and I think you can be Alt Country without even being country, depending on what country, heh-this, in part because the meaning of the term changed) I'd personally have referred to the track played on the webcast as Alt. Country rather than Americana, specifically because it sounded English to my ear and was mixed like a Beatles record; I think if I were producing an Americana record, there would be no flangers, no chorus-I'd find another way to make it modern, if the artist asked for that. (I'd also get to the point a lot quicker; I don't necessarily write Nashville, but I can't help hearin' it if you know what I mean)

I really liked Michael's comment about the ability to perform the material in a rural setting without getting your a$$ kicked, but there's a little more to it than that, and I think it's probably because you can be Alt. Country without being rural. It all comes down to context, at least for me. For one, there's a finite acreage of cow and/or horsesh*t you have to step in, in order to be able to wear a hat and boots without the slightest trace of irony. (let's jes' say that raising crops and animals for a living gives one a different perspective on the circle of life than watching The Lion King)

Without those acres, you might as well not be seen outdoors wearin' 'em in some parts, let alone play any music, but say, for instance you was to not only wear the hat and boots but also a Manuel suit and you and your similarly-dressed four-piece combo with drums showed up at the American Legion in Monon, IN and played some punk rock; you'd get out of there with your skin intact, but you'd have to play it pretty dang authentic, and you'd be playing Alt. Country, not Americana. (that is, unless your lyric content/perspective is authentically rural-it isn't so much the exceptions, it's more a matter of there being a great deal of middle ground) If those lyrics are rural, then the only thing that prevents your performance from being Americana is the suit; I think only Emmylou's bunch and Marty Stuart's are allowed to wear those, and still be Americana. (Kris Kristofferson could, but he won't) Anywho, if your perspective's rural, you ain't wearin' the suit, heh, unless you're Little Jimmy Dickens. (and Jimmy Dickens has made his bones; he left a wide streak of his sense of humor on a young and impressionable Brad Paisley, and has thereby suffered a mild career resurgence)

I also think there's a certain amount of implied respect for country music's traditions in Americana that's maybe lacking in Alt. Country; some of 'em wouldn't deign to play either radio-format country nor even the real thing, which is what many Americana artists are trying to do. (cowpunk was originally a derogatory term applied to Alt. Country by proponents of the then-current Outlaw Country, heh, which had recently replaced Chet Atkins' famed Nashville Sound as the choice of Country radio programmers) Americana is less about how you dress and more about how you act than either Alt. country or modern radio-format country. The sad thing about Americana is some of the artists are so sincere, they can barely crack a smile; gods forbid their shows be entertaining, they wouldn't want to look like they were trying to please anyone, but the best of 'em sound good enough to overcome the shoe-gazing and they don't need no steenking Auto Tune.

I really enjoyed hwoodum's link and found this comment by Truersound very telling:

"The fact is the term country has been co-opted and now means sacharine sounding bullshit. you guys argue about the weirdest things.

Oh, and I remember 15 years ago when this same argument was being had, only then the term was alt-country and now there is a new term for it because “alt-country” has been co-opted by whiny sounding indie bands with weak singers, and guitarists who can’t seem to use a tuner.

15 before that it was cow-punk, 10 before that it was country-rock, 10-15 years from now when the term ‘americana’ gets co-opted by some other group for a cheap buck, who knows what it will be called.

Truth is corporate music has always sucked, be it country or non, and every so often someone needs to come up with a term to describe the artists on the fringes who have more in common with the past than the moment. This is nothing new."

Sort of points up that "moving target" part of the Taxi show. I believe the Merriam-Webster quote more accurately describes what was once known as Country-Western music, a term that'll get you laughed at in Nashvegas, these days. I'd imagine a guy like Dale Watson probably chafes a bit under the Americana banner, because terminology is actually more prone to change than music, viz modern radio-format country, which is hardly distinguishable from Late 70s Southern Boogie/Rock or even 90s-vintage Aerosmith in some cases. (only the name changed, the sound simply moved to a different number on the dial) I think a lot of Bob Seger's late-70s output would fit comfortably on modern country radio, and Kid Rock seems to agree. (and perhaps the music follows the demographic of its listeners, warping to suit their changing needs)

The issue is further complicated by the fact that no artist is at any time obliged to remain in one genre; it's important to mix and distill the various influences into one's own particular brew, it's what branding is all about. Crossing genres actually helps an artist up to a point, but if you get too versatile, it becomes vastly more difficult to be authentic. It's a tightrope an artist has to walk to sustain a career longer than five years or so; my homeboy Johnny Cougar was a snot-nosed punk, but John Mellencamp, along with Neil Young, Bruce Springsteen and fellow hoosier John Hiatt, is one of the architects of Americana, which I might define as what happens when you can effectively combine the two great rivers of ethnic American folk music, by which I mean the southern appalachian Scotch-Irish string band and gospel music that became the core of our Country music, and the country blues, work songs and Black gospel music that became blues and R&B. (Rock&Roll was only their first baby, Bluegrass was the second) And yes, there were also Crosby, Stills, Furay, Hillman, Ronstadt, Henley Frey, Souther, Raitt, etc., shoot, maybe even James Taylor, Carly Simon, Carole King and Paul Simon, certainly John Fogerty and maybe even Rickie Lee Jones or Jackson Browne, much of what's now considered Americana was what the hippie movement and the remains of the folk boom bequeathed (or maybe grafted on) to the SoCal country-rock movement that was later personified by the Eagles, who were, in turn, celebrated by the country radio community on Common Thread; I suppose I should also mention The Nitty Gritty Dirt Band and "Will The Circle Be Unbroken", at this point)

But all genres depend on the context, either that of the artist, the audience or both. Maybe it's easier to categorize genres by who listens; if I see a young bar patron wearing engineer boots, jeans with turned-up cuffs and a plaid flannel shirt, I'll need to check his tattoos, jewelry and what beer he's drinking to know for sure. (if it's Guinness he's a punk, microbrew usually means Grunge, Rockabillies/psychobillies will usually have a PBR, tribal tats and hemp necklace usually means a jam band fan, but he'll wear cargo shorts and sandals instead of the jeans and boots; if the boots are cowboy boots he might be Americana) So to conclude, (finally)I think the difference is this: if you're inspired by rural music, but not North American rural, you're probably Alt. Country, and if you're both or possibly a pub band from Dublin that sounds like The Sons Of The Pioneers, you're Americana.








PS: don't even ask me what them Ubangi earlobe plugs mean. Ethnic vs folk is a whole 'nother thread.

[Kolstad]

Interesting post Mojo! With those analytic lenses, you could have been a great marketing guy (if you're not already..)!

What we, or at least the music exec's, call "genres" are sort of (rough) templates of what is popular with a particular segment in the population. So in a way, to the rural folks wearing rugged jeans, suade'n boots, Americana is actually "pop"

As a musician I find it way more arbitrary, which genre you aspire to and appeal to, than considering clothes and lifestyles. The psychoanalytic answer, "the formative years" well.. maybe to some extent, where we grew up? Hope not! but as an adult we are able to make our own choices, that not solely depends on our childhood experiences, I think. It can even depend on such trivial things as what you actually succeed in playing, or what gear you can afford, or "get" using.. as those things will suggest certain genres or blends.. As far as I remember, John Hiatt aspired to be a country artist for many years, untill the Americana segment was carved out and defined. Springsteen was rock, Elton John was pop, Mavis Staples was soul, Jamey Johnson celebrated a country, Buddy Guy blues, Bob Dylan folk, Dierks Bentley... well a lot of the names on that Americana chart used to be in different genres back when, didn't they, and many still crosses over?

There are many treaties written about being "real" and "authentic" in music, as that has always been the appeal for those who wants to associate themselves wwith a particular genre of music. Leadbelly comes to mind as a marketing gimmic.. Beatles wanted to "write a swimmingpool".. Elvis did his 50'ies stuff, so he could sing Gospel ballads in a boyband later on.. list is endless.. If the music is "real", in the meaning it can be placed with particular stereotypes of people in a particular place and time, or at least sounds like it can, then it becomes useful for those who'd like to appeal or associate themselves with that particular type of segment. That's the major appeal of "real", business wise..

For a seasoned musician like myself, who likes to play a lot of different things, for different reasons, genres are important to understand which kind of template is used to appeal to the particular segments of listeners. When doing music for tv/film as a songwriter/composer/producer, the "real" deal kind of looses it's innocence. Genres are basically just a business term, an undeniably useful one, and I mean no harm to it. Can't do without it, but it is what it is, I like all blends of music, and genres doesn't define "real" in any "real" sense to me, however useful it may be.

Don't get me wrong, I think it's VERY important for young bands and artists trying to find and sustain an audience ect. And tht effort needs to have some real world basis, because the first audience is always local.. But in the "Taxi game", so to speak, it cannot only be about being "real", in the sense that you live a particular lifestyle, a particular place, with a particular group of people. Lot's of Taxi members prove that every day by placing music everywhere from all over the world. For me at 40, and in 2011, it has also to be about that you KNOW about that particular lifestyle ect. and can deliver sufficient real sounding efforts in that particular genre, based on that knowledge.. of course, going places, talking to people ect. is also knowledge in the form of experience, so everything counts. But doesn't rule out other types of experience, I think, such as reading, watching, observing, thinking, reasoning, practicing ect.

Cause what the .... does "real" mean for someone who's doing music for a tv show one day, writes a pop song the next day, delivers a rocking guitar solo the next, performs at the local singer/songwriters club the next, writes music for a students cartoon project the next, teaches guitar or piano to rookies, writes up a score for a demohouse or an orchestra, does a piece for a company website the next day, then a country pitch with a cowriter for George Strait ect. Maybe you get the drift?

How are a modern music person supposed to adhere to the criterias of "real", then? Does the variety of it "dequalify" it to be "real"? Does the International cross the borders collaboration, make it less grounded in "reality"? Does the competence to perform on a variety of instruments in a variety of genres make the performance and the music less "authentic"?

Today you can choose the artist route, and to some extent have to buy into the "real" hype in order to at all be marketable. But as a songwriter/composer/producer, I just want to know and get the templates, rip off the cellophane, and PLAY. Isn't that rock'n roll - freedom? Well, what the dang do I know.. I'm jes a Norway dude

jes sayin'

[billg1]

This is interesting. You certainly don't need to be from rural America to find success as an Americana artist (look at the top 10 chart, Robert Plant, Elvis Costello). But you DO have to be authentic, which I believe can come from a deep respect and understanding of the music . . . as well as the ability to pull it off.

I live in Virginia, about 20min. from the North Carolina line & I can tell you this . . . I believe it's easier for the people around here to recognize what ISN'T authentic, and the same goes for people further south and in the "heartland" as well. Travel 30-40 min. south, hop into a country store & mention Kieth Urban or Taylor Swift in the context of country music & you'll see what I mean. Although that's probably not a good example because I'm sure even the people in Connecticut know the difference between rock, pop, and country. It's only the people in Nashville who seem confused, and I'm sure they know better but they're just following the money (confused like a fox!)

I had never heard of the term "Americana" applied to music until 1999. A band I was in had a CD review & the music was labeled Americana. The thing is it was just the kind of music we always created when it was just for ourselves. It was really kind of cool to have a label attached to it.

It was refreshing to know we could record a southern/country flavored song with pedal steel, and gospel chick backup singers, maybe some horns & a banjo and actually have a name for it.